D&D (2024) Is it possible to balance the six abilities?

[Yaarel]

Like vancian casting, the six abilities are a recognizable tradition that works less well.

It is possible to clarify and balance the abilities by adding Athletics and Perception to make eight abilities, or consolidating the eight to four abilities.

• Strength-Constitution
• Dexterity-Athletics
• Intelligence-Perception
• Charisma-Wisdom

Both the eightsome and the foursome work well. It is obvious which ability to use, and which not to use. And each gets used about equally often during gameplay for about equally important things. Making Athletics the go-to ability for swashbuckling campaigns enhances the cinematic excitement. Perception merits its promotion.

But is it possible to make the 'classic' sixsome work well?


I cant yet make the six abilities work well, in terms of avoiding ambiguity (like facilitating agility themes, disambiguating Perception-Investigation, Survival-Nature, and so on) and maintaining balance (like Intelligence being equally valuable as Dexterity).

But there might be a way forward. In 5e, Constitution has evolved into a strictly passive ability. It is responsible for hit points and 'fortitude' saves. It seems possible to update Wisdom into a strictly passive ability, relating mental health in some sense. However I am unsure what its mechanics should be exactly, and how to balance it with the rest of the six abilities.

Hypothetically, the structure for a balanced ability system, might look something like the following:

	Power	Precision	Endurance (Passive)
Physical Abilities	STRENGTH	DEXTERITY	CONSTITUTION
Mental Abilities	CHARISMA	INTELLIGENCE	WISDOM

 

[Scribe]

I think it certainly can be done, in a new system or one that deconstructs D&D.

I dont think it can be done in 5/5.5 very easily.

 

[Yaarel]

I think it certainly can be done, in a new system or one that deconstructs D&D.

I dont think it can be done in 5/5.5 very easily.

It is hard to say if something is easy or not, without a plan for what can work.

One idea is to split off the Perception skill and give it to Intelligence, and split off the Will save and give it to Charisma. This is thematically appropriate, makes Charisma and Intelligence appealing compared to the physical abilities, ... but I am sure what is left for Wisdom to manage. There is no mental parallel to Hit Points.

 

[jgsugden]

There are things that can be done in the 5E space that balances the load, better. However, it would essentially require the rewriting of the system for them to all have an equal level of importance.

Things you would likely want to achieve:

1.) Decrease the importance of Constitution for hps. One method of doing this would be to not have it give you hps, but instead have it give you damage resistance against exhaustion damage - and then introduce exhaustion damage mechanics that hurt your PC for pushing themselves too much (and for certain spells - like a ray of sickness). Alternatively, give Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma and Strength relevant combat focused significance akin to the AC bonus from Dex or HP bonus from Con. I can't come up with great examples for each that I would think parallel these bonuses.

2.) Increase the value of constitution for ability checks. You don't necessarily need to tie a bunch of skills to it, although it could help, but you need to make the number of constitution ability checks a PC rolls increase.

3.) Charisma and Intelligence need to see more 'required' uses. They can't be allowed to be dump stats with little to no effect. We'd want to see a lack of intelligence limit PCs more meaningfully (example - low intelligence characters may not know how to care for their weapons and might see them become less effective over time), and we'd want to have NPCs respond to a low charism PC as uncharismatic even if they are not the face of the party.

In the 1990s I rally tried to balance that attributes. I spent a long time on it - and determined it was a fool's errand. I was never going to get there. The homebrew system I came up with just never was good enough for me to want to use it - but I tried hard.

 

[AnotherGuy]

ATTRIBUTES​

PHYSICAL​	SOCIAL​	MENTAL​
Constitution​	Charisma​	Intelligence​
Dexterity​	Composure​	Resolve​
Strength​	Manipulation​	Wits​

Comeliness​

Willpower​

Comeliness straddles between Physical and Social, while Willpower is a balance between Social and Mental.
I've designed the character sheet and system for such a version of D&D which borrows heavily from Vampire the Masquerade in presentation.

 

[Horwath]

I would go the opposite way and reduce it to only 4 abilities.

1. Strength:
Current STR+CON combined
armor limit,
melee+thrown attack+damage,
bonus HPs,
Athletics skill,
carry capacity
all current STR and CON saves

2. Dexterity:
Current DEX,
AC bonus
init bonus
finesse+ranged attack+damage
Stealth, Acrobatics, Sleight of hands skill
current Dex saves

3. Willpower:
magic attack, damage and DC
all current int, wis and cha saves

4. Cunning:
Bonus skills,
Bonus languages,
all current Int, Wis and Cha skills

 

[Yaarel]

Comparing other systems can help get a sense of the issues involved, and look at the D&D 5e mechanics in a fresh way.

At the same time, I am curious how to make the six abilities work well.

Ultimately, the solution has to be a bottom-up approach. One starts with what mechanics actually happen during gameplay. Then to divide all of these mechanics into six groups, that are about equally frequent and equally vital for gameplay. Finally, come up with a narrative concept that makes sense for the cluster of mechanics that is in each of the six groups.

When deciding which mechanics go into which group, things like "bonus languages" are not worth mentioning when comparing to vital gameplay mechanics like damage-dealing, hit points, and AC.

Concerns about balance refer to which mechanics end up with which of the six.

 

[Deset Gled]

Both the eightsome and the foursome work well. It is obvious which ability to use, and which not to use. And each gets used about equally often during gameplay for about equally important things. Making Athletics the go-to ability for swashbuckling campaigns enhances the cinematic excitement. Perception merits its promotion.

But is it possible to make the 'classic' sixsome work well?

I cant yet make the six abilities work well, in terms of avoiding ambiguity (like facilitating agility themes, disambiguating Perception-Investigation, Survival-Nature, and so on) and maintaining balance (like Intelligence being equally valuable as Dexterity).

Just too put it front and center: The classic 6 are essentially the qwerty keyboard. They work well enough, and there is no proof any of the alternatives work any better. So we stick with it.

Even in your own example, it is not "obvious" what the difference between dexterity and athletics is. And there is no reason to believe equality would be improved (e.g. why a warrior would use charisma as much as strength in general gameplay).

All systems have ambiguities, because all ability systems are abstract. But, critically, balance is tied more to mechanics and style of play than ability scores. You can find ways to balance ability scores by ensuring they are used more equitably in the game. But conflating that discussion the the number of ability scores only ensures there will be more ambiguities.

 

[Yaarel]

what the difference between dexterity and athletics is.

In the eight ability system:

Dexterity = manual dexterity, cautious precision.
Athletics = body agility, balance, mobility.

There is no overlap. Athletics gains the "dodge" bonus to AC.

All systems have ambiguities, because all ability systems are abstract. But, critically, balance is tied more to mechanics and style of play than ability scores.

The eight abilities are not abstract. They emerge from the bottom up, from each of the eight containing important combat mechanics, that tend to happen during most combat encounters.

 

[soviet]

I would also want to keep the classic 6 for reasons of nostalgia and tradition.

I guess the trick then is finding ways to even up the value of each stat for different characters.

INT could become the initiative stat

Death saves could become a WIS check (willpower)

Not sure for CHA. It could help determine starting wealth but this is only relevant at low levels. Some sort of luck mechanic? Maybe you can sub in CHA for the regular stat on X skill checks a day, where X is your proficiency bonus?