Is it me or is death knell a crap spell?

[Kylas]

Ive been looking at this spell and it seems like crap to me I can't see a use for it:


Death Knell
Level: Clr 2, Death 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous/10 minutes per HD of subject; see text
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
You draw forth the ebbing life force of a creature and use it to fuel your own power. Upon casting this spell, you touch a living creature that has -1 or fewer hit points. If the subject fails its saving throw, it dies, and you gain 1d8 temporary hit points and a +2 bonus to Strength. Additionally, your effective caster level goes up by +1, improving spell effects dependent on caster level. (This increase in effective caster level does not grant you access to more spells.) These effects last for 10 minutes per HD of the subject creature.

Why would any cleric good or evil waste a slot with it. Will negates plus SR, and it's touch range. The most annoying part of this spell, you have to attack a creature in the negative zone. How many DM's play NPC's between -1 to -10 hp? Unless it's BBEG. And not to mention how hard is it to actually get someone in between that range.

If you don't think it's bad tell me how it's useful. Maybe i'm using it wrong.

On the other hand, if you think this is a near useless spell tell me what you think should be changed about it. The premise has a nice feed off the enemy evilness to it but I think it just fails.

My idea:
Short range Multi target RTA, creature # based on Caster level
Affects creatures that died N rounds ago. N= 1/2HD??
I don't know! Thoughts?
....I just realized it be hard to roll will saves when your dead.

 

[Herzog]

1. you actually kill the creature. if it is a creature with DR, you might not have other means to do this.
2. although I generally don't play NPC's between -1 and -10, I do record how far in the minus they fell.
3. you could use it to kill a frenzied berserker? (I remember something about them being able to continue fighting even below -10?)
4. you kill someone AND gain a benefit! (I'm not sure whether it would stack. untyped sais yes, same source says no...)

If you think it needs a boost, how about it applying to helpless creatures as well? (a sort of quick coup de grace with benefits.....)

Oh, and if you get that feat that adds range to your touch spells (Spell Reach?) by spending Turn Undead uses, you don't need to get too close to them.

There is one thing that strikes me as odd: it needs both an attack AND gets a save. most spells have either one or the other.

 

[Christian]

There is one thing that strikes me as odd: it needs both an attack AND gets a save. most spells have either one or the other.

Well, it's not like you're going to miss the attack, right? Except in unusual situations (a target with the Die Hard feat, or a Frenzied Berserker), you'll be making a touch attack against a helpless foe. Just don't roll a 1, and you should be golden.

 

[Runestar]

That is why evil clerics carry around a few expendable, tiny creatures such as rats with them. Prior to encountering the PCs, they kill the rat, cast death knell on it for the benefits, and well, the short duration doesn't matter when they are expected to live even shorter vs the party anyways.

Your mistake lies in thinking this is an offensive attack spell to be used during combat. It is actually a pre-combat buff! +1 caster lv for a 2nd lv slot? Sign me up!

 

[frankthedm]

Ive been looking at this spell and it seems like crap to me I can't see a use for it:

Are you the BBEG with the heroes chopping down your chamber doors?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

1. you actually kill the creature. if it is a creature with DR, you might not have other means to do this.

If it's unconscious, you can just coup de grace, I don't think this is a major boon. It might be nice against a creature with high regeneration like an Ogre Mage, if only the weapon damage the party's done till then actually counted as depleting hp... Maybe making the spell work on enemies you've beaten to unconscious would help. As it is, you can just strangle or drown those enemies anyway.

2. although I generally don't play NPC's between -1 and -10, I do record how far in the minus they fell.

I do too, can't see it helping much, though.

3. you could use it to kill a frenzied berserker? (I remember something about them being able to continue fighting even below -10?)

Good point,it would help there. Also, in any instance the enemy's received a Delay Death spell (Clr 4, basically makes someone a Frenzied Berserker for hp).

If you think it needs a boost, how about it applying to helpless creatures as well? (a sort of quick coup de grace with benefits.....)

This sounds promising. Any creature's pretty screwed at that point anyways, and they're getting a save.

Oh, and if you get that feat that adds range to your touch spells (Spell Reach?) by spending Turn Undead uses, you don't need to get too close to them.

Reach spell does this, but for +2 spell levels. Not worth it. Divine Ward lets you burn turn attempts to do touch spells at range with a previously warded creature, but I think it's only for healing.

There is one thing that strikes me as odd: it needs both an attack AND gets a save. most spells have either one or the other.

Well, as someone else pointed out, most times the enemy will be helpless. I don't even see why you should need to roll at that point. Any excuse you could come up with for why you'd fail to touch a helpless foe would also apply to touching a willing ally, and I've never seen a DM ask for an attack roll there. So the save is the only real roll.

To the OP, I think it's weak as well. I'd either make it apply to any helpless creature like Herzog thought of; make it Close range targeted instead of melee touch; or make it an immediate action spell to cast against someone you just dropped between -1 and -10 in melee (no touch required, triggers off the hit and just allows save/SR). Last one's pretty limited, but looks cool in my head.

 

[maransreth]

IN the first 3e game I played in, the DM had the BBEG cleric use this spell to finish off one of the party members - it was a perfect sitting duck situation and he used it - finish off an opponent, and power up against the others.

 

[4eHater]

The spell can be pretty powerful. After all, it may have quite some amount of limitations for its use but the benefits stack! A wand of death knell can be rather scary if the evil villain has captured the village folk or has weakened minions to sacrifice.

As for the PCs, I don't see this being much use unless they decide to carry around stabilized, unconscious rats in their bag. I always saw it (and used it) more as a spell for the enemies as opposed to the PCs.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I think it's a pretty crap spell, but for a different reason: its primary purpose is for bad guys to kill PCs when they're down. (It's an evil spell, and while some PCs, in some groups, are evil, it's a very small minority of PCs. Made even smaller because some evil PCs won't use it because their companions won't condone it.) Don't get me wrong, I'm not against PC death (IMC, the chips fall where they may), I'm just not a fan of a spell that exists primarily for that reason.

Couldn't the effects of death knell just be folded into inflict moderate wounds without losing much?

The "Will negates" entry is interesting. While I suppose it's possible to be in negatives without being unconscious, that will be rare. And aren't unconscious creatures treated as "willing" for Will saves?

Anyway, for those who do want to use the spell, remember that it can be delivered via a spectral hand, which is how my necro-theurge used it, on those few occasions when he did.

 

[Runestar]

And aren't unconscious creatures treated as "willing" for Will saves?

Only for harmless spells like cure light wounds. An unconscious person can still (and most probably will opt to) save against death knell.