D&D 5E Is Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting a good spell?

[Nikosandros]

I'm a bit dubious about this spell (wich originally appeared in 2e Tome of Magic) as presented in the Elemental Evil Player's Companion.

It has the same range as fireball and a smaller volume. On average it deals 0.5 less points of damage than a fireball boosted to 8th level. I guess that necrotic damage might be better than fire damage, but fireball is far more flexible since it can use any slot from 3rd to 9th. Thoughts?

 

[Kobold Stew]

These were discussed here, when the supplement came out.

Damage is almost identical to a fireball cast from an equivalent slot (45 vs. 45.5 on average), but fire damage is more easily resisted. It's not an overpowering spell, but it's a nice necromantic niche that has its uses.

 

[Mephista]

Considering we're talking about a naturally 8th level spell, that's pretty bad if its comparable to a fireball. Generally speaking, there's a significant bump in power from 2nd to 3rd level spells, then again with 5th to 6th, and then from 8th to 9th. Apprentice spells are weaker than heroic-tier spells, even when both are cast at level 4 slots.

For Horrid Wilting to be equivalent to a lower tier effect at level 8? That's terrible.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Fireball cast from an eighth-level slot.

But yes, it's not overpowered.

 

[Gadget]

Yes, it is a poor spell for 8th level. It needs a little something to give it a little edge, other than "I can nuke my meat-shield undead with it and they won't be hurt". Perhaps a status effect or a greater area.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Yeah, I think the consensus from the previous thread was that the spell was pretty bad. Increasing the AE and granting a level of exhaustion on a failed save seemed to be good fixes I saw proposed.

 

[Scorpio616]

I think Horrid Wilting is in line with the standards Necromancy has had since old editions, BUT those old standards are now grossly unfair.

Necromancy school has an "elephant in the room" type problem. It's always done less damage than evocation, but it made up with it's undead. however since recent editions of D&D have not so subtle push PCs to be good, or at least neutral, that pretty much nerfs a significant portion of the Necromancy School for PCs, who the balance of the spell schools are really the only ones the school balances MATTER for, since NPC casters get whatever abilities they need via the DM.

Creating the undead through the use of necromancy spells such as animate dead is not a good act, and only evil casters use such spells frequently.

IMHO I definitely understand why WOTC would want to keep PCs from having masses of Undead at their beck and call, but the Necromancy School should get SOMETHING to make up for that! It doesn't need to out damage Evocation, but it shouldn't lag THAT far behind either if players are being strong armed into not using the main part of the school.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Creating the undead through the use of necromancy spells such as animate dead is not a good act, and only evil casters use such spells frequently.

"Not a good act" != "an evil act"

"5 days a month (ie - when I go into a dungeon)" != "frequently" in the context of things that can be done multiple times per day.

That's my argument anyway.

 

[CapnZapp]

Is is a good spell?

No. It's not evil, it's just bad.

 

[Pickles III]

I think Horrid Wilting is in line with the standards Necromancy has had since old editions, BUT those old standards are now grossly unfair.

Necromancy school has an "elephant in the room" type problem. It's always done less damage than evocation, but it made up with it's undead. however since recent editions of D&D have not so subtle push PCs to be good, or at least neutral, that pretty much nerfs a significant portion of the Necromancy School for PCs, who the balance of the spell schools are really the only ones the school balances MATTER for, since NPC casters get whatever abilities they need via the DM.



IMHO I definitely understand why WOTC would want to keep PCs from having masses of Undead at their beck and call, but the Necromancy School should get SOMETHING to make up for that! It doesn't need to out damage Evocation, but it shouldn't lag THAT far behind either if players are being strong armed into not using the main part of the school.

Necromancers cast fireball the same as everyone else, nothing unfair about it.

It does not stop this being a horrid spell though.