D&D 5E Intimidation DCs

[Springheel]

I'm finding Intimidation a difficult skill to wrap my head around.

1. How does the DM decide the DC of an intimidation check? What factors should determine whether it is "Very Hard" or just "Medium"? Let's say a dwarf fighter is trying to intimidate a goblin into giving up a secret. It seems like any or all of the following considerations might be a factor:

How wounded is the dwarf?
How wounded is the goblin?
Are either of them armed?
Is the goblin used to being bullied?
Did the dwarf just beat the goblin in a fight?
Does the dwarf have a group of friends present?
Does the goblin have a group of friends present?
Does the goblin know that reinforcements will be there soon?
Has a bigger boss threatened the goblin's life if he reveals the secret?
Did the goblin just watch several friends get killed by the dwarf?
Did the dwarf just give an intimidating speech?
etc, etc

That seems like a hell of lot to try and weigh in the spur of the moment.

Let's say the dwarf is badly wounded and unarmed, but has four strong friends behind him and the goblin is alone but is expecting reinforcements and was threatened with death if he revealed the secret, and the dwarf's player just gave a great speech. What should the DC be?

2. Some monsters have a bonus to Intimidation (eg, Thug has +2). Presumably they can attempt to intimidate PCs? (whether the players have to abide by the result is a separate discussion)

How would the DM set the DC for such a roll? Or is it a contested roll (and if so, contested by what)?

 

[machineelf]

Intimidation and persuasion are two sides of the single coin of trying to get someone to do something. Persuasion is the carrot, and intimidation is the stick.

To determine the DC of the check, you could check out the guidelines in the DMG for persuasion checks to get an idea of how to set the DC for intimidation checks. But instead of determining how friendly the NPC is to the character, you could instead determine how fearful (or not) the NPC is. But in general, go with 10 for easy, 15 for difficult, 20 for hard, 25 for very hard, and 30 for very, very hard (like if you were trying to intimidate a demon lord or something). I don't think you have to overthink it. All the factors you listed can be things to take into account, but I would just make a quick estimation if I were you. I'd think about that particular NPC, and whether the goblin was a peon or the pack leader. Maybe a peon would only need a medium (15) DC, whereas a brave leader would require a hard (20) DC.

I don't do these as contested rolls, although in a sense they are, because you are setting the DC based on the NPC's overall fearfulness or bravery. It's not a set attribute, but you can estimate it. So in a sense it's the player's intimidation skill contested against what you estimate the NPC's bravery to be. (Although it's not a roll vs. a roll, like a true contested roll is.)

 

[iserith]

I'm finding Intimidation a difficult skill to wrap my head around.

1. How does the DM decide the DC of an intimidation check? What factors should determine whether it is "Very Hard" or just "Medium"? Let's say a dwarf fighter is trying to intimidate a goblin into giving up a secret. It seems like any or all of the following considerations might be a factor:

How wounded is the dwarf?
How wounded is the goblin?
Are either of them armed?
Is the goblin used to being bullied?
Did the dwarf just beat the goblin in a fight?
Does the dwarf have a group of friends present?
Does the goblin have a group of friends present?
Does the goblin know that reinforcements will be there soon?
Has a bigger boss threatened the goblin's life if he reveals the secret?
Did the goblin just watch several friends get killed by the dwarf?
Did the dwarf just give an intimidating speech?
etc, etc

That seems like a hell of lot to try and weigh in the spur of the moment.

Let's say the dwarf is badly wounded and unarmed, but has four strong friends behind him and the goblin is alone but is expecting reinforcements and was threatened with death if he revealed the secret, and the dwarf's player just gave a great speech. What should the DC be?

2. Some monsters have a bonus to Intimidation (eg, Thug has +2). Presumably they can attempt to intimidate PCs? (whether the players have to abide by the result is a separate discussion)

How would the DM set the DC for such a roll? Or is it a contested roll (and if so, contested by what)?

1. As with any other action declaration, the DM must consider the player's stated goal (what the player wants to accomplish) and approach (what the character does to try to achieve the goal) before deciding if the outcome is a success, a failure, or is uncertain. Only in the latter case do we ask for a check; otherwise, we just narrate the result e.g. "The goblin gives up the secret..." or "The goblin is resolute and does not divulge anything..." All this requires is the DM's knowledge of the context of the situation and the input the player has given. You can run a perfectly fine game with just making the DCs 10, 15, or 20 with the odd 25 here and there. So I wouldn't sweat worrying about exactly what the DC should be in these cases.

2. I wouldn't consider this to be a contest, nor do I think it's okay for the DM to make ability checks when monsters are trying to deceive, entertain, intimidate, or persuade PCs as there is no uncertainty here as to the outcome of what the PCs do. (The PCs will do what the players say they will do!) Some folks seem to ask for those checks to gauge how intimidating (or persuasive or entertaining or deceptive) the monster is being and leave it to the players to declare their response as they see fit. I think this just creates an extra step for no good reason. I prefer to just describe the environment and let the PCs declare their response as per the basic conversation of the game (Basic Rules, page 3).

 

[Bawylie]

The same way you set a DC for anything.

Make sure you know what the character is trying to do and how they want to go about it. Then,

Determine if the action can fail. If so,
Determine if the action can succeed. If so, judge whether or not success is very likely (DC 10), somewhat likely (DC 15), or unlikely (DC 20).

Adjust a point or two up or down in consideration of the remaining situations (one is armed/wounded while the other isn't, etc).

Ask for the roll, narrate the results.

For example. The Dwarf Fighter wants to glean any information he can from the Goblin prisoner. The goblin will give up any information so long as it thinks it will escape alive. As the dwarf begins his intimidation ("Tell me what I want to know or your skull will adorn my beard!!) I believe the goblin will automatically respond favorably (he wants very badly to survive) so I don't need a DC yet.

"I'll tell you everything! Just please let me go," the goblin whimpers.

Now the dwarf could make an assurance that they will let the goblin go, and accordingly the dwarf would not fail to get the info. But, if the dwarf did not make any assurances, the goblin would be in a position wherein we don't know exactly how it might respond.

"You want to save your own skin? No, we're past that! Where's my beard kit?"

I figure in this situation, the goblin is just as likely as not to cough up the info or concoct some desperate gamble so I set my DC at 15 and ask for the roll.

It didn't have to be that way, though. The dwarf might've changed tactics in response to the goblin and thus eliminated (or perhaps assured) the possibility of failure. Either way, I don't set a DC until *I Don't Know* what happens next. And the DC I set is based on how likely I feel the player's declared action will be to achieve the player's intent.


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[cooperjer]

How wounded is the dwarf?
How wounded is the goblin?
Are either of them armed?
Is the goblin used to being bullied?
Did the dwarf just beat the goblin in a fight?
Does the dwarf have a group of friends present?
Does the goblin have a group of friends present?
Does the goblin know that reinforcements will be there soon?
Has a bigger boss threatened the goblin's life if he reveals the secret?
Did the goblin just watch several friends get killed by the dwarf?
Did the dwarf just give an intimidating speech?
etc, etc

Of these factors there are probably one two or three that are more significant than the others. I would recommend making a decision on the DC based on that.

I'll give an example from a recent game. The team is nearly 90% complete with defeating a keeps leader and about others. Dead and wounded lay around various tables and on the floor. Reinforcements were called in about ten seconds ago and a mercenary arrives on the scene face to face with a level 8 sorcerer. The player of the sorcerer states that she wants to convince the mercenary that it's in his best interest to leave. I consider the room scene, the fact that the mercenary is out numbered, and ask the player to roll a persuasion check. I set the DC at 8. I selected 8 because it's an easy task to convince a mercenary to save it's own neck, but the mercenary also wants to get paid, so therefore it wasn't an automatic success.

About 15 seconds after the first mercenary leaves, three more mercenaries show up face to face with the sorcerer. These three have been getting a little more indoctrinated into the cult and they now outnumber the sorcerer. The player states that she wants to convince these three to leave as well. I indicate that it wont be possible. They outnumber her and they want to get paid. After these three took 50% health damage in two rounds, I had them start to leave the combat because they clearly were not going to get paid if they were dead. They were blown up by the sorcerer.

 

[Oofta]

As with others, I set a DC that makes sense for the situation. So what factors go into it?

Motivation of the NPC: there's a spectrum of motivations, everywhere from a hired mercenary to a devout cultist who will not talk under any circumstance.

• Do they owe allegiance to the leader? This can be anything from "somebody hired me to do a job" to "I will never betray my father".
• Do they fear the leader? Will their life be forfeit if they tell? "You can kill me, but if I tell you The Boss will kill me after watching my family die."
• Do they have a personal code of honor that would prevent them from saying anything? This is a cultural/alignment thing. I can see goblins backstabbing each other on a regular basis, whereas a lawful black knight would not.
• Are they brainwashed/ensorcelled? Magic may prevent them from speaking even if they wanted to do so. On the other hand, they may have just had a suggestion spell cast on them.
• What will be the aftermath? What happens to the NPC if they fess up? Can they gett away scott free with no one the wiser, or will others know what happened. Will their reputation suffer?

So a hired mercenary that does not fear the person that hired them, may be an easy DC 5. A cultist who believes they owe their very existence to the great leader will be DC 20 or higher.

Charisma of the NPC: Since charisma is supposed to represent force of will, an extremely low or high charisma may modify the number I came up with based on the motivation of the NPC.

PC's notoriety and race: Does the NPC know the group's reputation? Is there a particular racial hatred or fear? Is the group known to keep their promises, or to be particularly vicious. Did the PCs just wipe out the goblin's village? That could make the NPC more fearful, or could mean that they hate the PCs and will refuse to talk.

PC's actions and words: How do the PCs react? Do the NPC says that they will protect the NPC if they talk, or threaten to broadcast that the NPC helped them whether or not they talk? This doesn't necessarily change the DC but I may grant advantage/disadvantage on the roll.

One last note - getting someone to talk doesn't necessarily mean that they are telling the truth. Scare or torture someone enough and they will tell you what they think you want to hear. In some cases, they may even be giving out info the BBEG wants the PCs to know.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

I'm personally not fond of the Interaction skills. There's a fine line between Persuasion, Intimidation and Deception - really, they're nearly the same other than the lever you use to exert your POV on another. Haven't you ever Persuaded someone by Lying (Deception)? In some ways it's not really fair given how monolithic other skills are. You don't need Stealth and Move Silent (no longer a skill) checks to Hide effectively. Nor do you need a Jump, Run or Swim check for those activities because Athletics has those covered. So why THREE different skills covering nuances of Interaction? And if you want to be a Man of a Thousand Faces? Well, that requires Deception AND Performance to pull off in most cases even before you get to the disguise ability being used.

Me, I'd rather just see an Interact skill that shows how good you are at persuading, conniving and threatening others.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I approach these a little differently: if I think of something interesting that could happen if the PC fails the check, then I think about the difficulty. If nothing interesting comes to mind, then the PC succeeds. I find that adds tension when I call for a check ("what does the DM have in mind?"). Since I am a big believer in any given NPC only having partial information on whatever the PC's are interested in, I don't see much upside to the dwarf failing the check (I also find it more fun for the PC's to have to steal the magguffin out of a dragon's horde then not to have it all, because the dwarf failed a check).

 

[MechaTarrasque]

As for using the skills on the PC's, I have thought about giving the charmed or frightened condition until the intimidator/persuader does damage to the PC (or the PC has a long rest) if the PC fails a check, but it hasn't come up yet, and I am not in a hurry to try it.

Mostly I think NPC's getting skills in persuasion and intimidation is for scenarios like this:

PC Bob is trying to intimidate NPC Joe for something as is NPC Thug John. John and Bob are in competition. Joe is more scared of whoever gets a higher check (give it to the PC if it is a tie).

 

[iserith]

I'm personally not fond of the Interaction skills. There's a fine line between Persuasion, Intimidation and Deception - really, they're nearly the same other than the lever you use to exert your POV on another. Haven't you ever Persuaded someone by Lying (Deception)? In some ways it's not really fair given how monolithic other skills are. You don't need Stealth and Move Silent (no longer a skill) checks to Hide effectively. Nor do you need a Jump, Run or Swim check for those activities because Athletics has those covered. So why THREE different skills covering nuances of Interaction? And if you want to be a Man of a Thousand Faces? Well, that requires Deception AND Performance to pull off in most cases even before you get to the disguise ability being used.

Me, I'd rather just see an Interact skill that shows how good you are at persuading, conniving and threatening others.

A general Interaction check would just be a Charisma check in my view. In fact, if instead of calling for a particular skill, you just let the player claim a skill applies to the ability check you do call for, it all works out fine. The player generally knows what he or she was going for when describing what the character is doing, so it does not require the DM to interpret the intent. He or she need only call for the Charisma check and the player takes it from there, adding the appropriate skill. This assumes, of course, the player is acting in good faith with regard to action declaration and applicable skill.