Internally logical magic systems?

[Guest 6801328]

I wasn't sure what to title this thread, because I don't know exactly how to describe what I'm looking for. But here's an attempt.

It bugs me that so many RPG magic systems...looking at you, D&D...don't have any underlying explanation of what magic is. It's "magic". The only restriction on what magic can do is the rules of the game.

To offer a counterexample, the novel Lexicon is based on the premise that human brains can basically be hacked by speaking a series of sounds, which only some people have the latent ability to do. They are the "sorcerers" of history/myth/etc. In the novel, there are a finite number of human "types", and once a sorcerer can figure out your type, they can basically mind control you. No fireballs, no teleporting, just "charm", really.

So I think what I'm looking for is a magic system that has the following characteristics:

• Given a description of an effect, e.g. "Can I make a fireball?", it would be at least somewhat obvious whether or not that's possible, and if so, how it would be accomplished.
• For the magic effects that are possible, there is some form of logically consistent, in-game limit to their use.

An example of this would be if magic were not magic, but chemistry/alchemy. Fireball? Sure, you mix A with B and C then throw it. Teleporting? Not so much.

But I'm interested in magic systems.

Any favorite examples from RPGs?

 

[Nagol]

In general order of playability:

• Ars Magica
• Mage the Ascension -- nWoD maybe too, I never looked at it
• ...
• Hero System / GURPS <-- these have as much attachment and restriction as the GM invests the time to create. I would rate this 2nd for myself, but I already put in the effort.
• ...
• Fantasy Wargaming <-- this one has probably the strongest in-universe ties, but as one has to track Astrological Correspondences that can shift hour to hour (or even faster if creatures move in and out of the region) and the math required gets obtuse and long, it isn't the best game.

 

[Laurefindel]

Ars Magica has a good magic system « structure », but can’t recall if it has a good « nature ».

spells are cast according to how difficult their effect is to create, not how powerful or useful they are in application

 

[Doug McCrae]

Fantasy Wargaming <-- this one has probably the strongest in-universe ties, but as one has to track Astrological Correspondences that can shift hour to hour (or even faster if creatures move in and out of the region) and the math required gets obtuse and long, it isn't the best game.

That's the first rpg I've ever heard of with a magic system that resembles real world medieval beliefs.

 

[Nagol]

That's the first rpg I've ever heard of with a magic system that resembles real world medieval beliefs.

Yeah. It is a bear of a system though.

 

[Nagol]

Ars Magica has a good magic system « structure », but can’t recall if it has a good « nature ».

spells are cast according to how difficult their effect is to create, not how powerful or useful they are in application

Somewhat though damaging effects scale their difficulty with their effectiveness.

4th edition has a baseline for different effects so one could reasonably contrast the difficulty of going invisible with killing someone. I recommend glancing at those baselines and making adjustments to better reflect campaign taste.

 

[Numidius]

WFRP has winds of magic blowing from warp portals at the poles and a moon made of warpstone sometimes crumbling on earth

 

[Fanaelialae]

The Mistborn RPG has very detailed and consistent magic systems. They are however quite different from more classically based systems like those found in D&D or Are Magica. But they were created by Brandon Sanderson, and that's his style.

 

[Lanefan]

It bugs me that so many RPG magic systems...looking at you, D&D...don't have any underlying explanation of what magic is. It's "magic". The only restriction on what magic can do is the rules of the game.

And even an underlying explanation that ties magic into the physics of the D&D universe doesn't solve this particular headache.

To offer a counterexample, the novel Lexicon is based on the premise that human brains can basically be hacked by speaking a series of sounds, which only some people have the latent ability to do. They are the "sorcerers" of history/myth/etc. In the novel, there are a finite number of human "types", and once a sorcerer can figure out your type, they can basically mind control you. No fireballs, no teleporting, just "charm", really.

So I think what I'm looking for is a magic system that has the following characteristics:

• Given a description of an effect, e.g. "Can I make a fireball?", it would be at least somewhat obvious whether or not that's possible, and if so, how it would be accomplished.
• For the magic effects that are possible, there is some form of logically consistent, in-game limit to their use.

An example of this would be if magic were not magic, but chemistry/alchemy. Fireball? Sure, you mix A with B and C then throw it. Teleporting? Not so much.

But I'm interested in magic systems.

Any favorite examples from RPGs?

Not from RPGs, but one option from literature is to make all 'magic' into what are usually called psionic powers: see Kurtz' Deryni books.

There, things like teleport and passive defenses are handled with items or sites that are built using Deryni powers. Doesn't help if you're trying to teleport out of a combat but does let you cover a long distance in a hurry if you're near a site. But it neatly combines what are usually seen as divine and arcane magic into one system.

Couple this with your alchemical model for damage effects and see where it leads you.

 

[tommybahama]

It bugs me that so many RPG magic systems...looking at you, D&D...don't have any underlying explanation of what magic is. It's "magic". The only restriction on what magic can do is the rules of the game.

What's the difference between a fireball and gravity? Why does gravity exist? Where does it come from? Is there an infinite amount? Some things that don't make sense are merely beyond our level of comprehension and knowledge.

D&D has the Weave. It may not make sense to us, but "we see through a glass, darkly."