D&D 3E/3.5 Input Needed: Two 3.5 Expert Classes

[Ibrin]

I am working on two expert classes for our sourcebook at www.aldenminor.com, and for an NPC I'm making for the site. I'd appreciate everyone's input on these:



NPC Expert Class - Guide

Hit Die - d8
Armor - Light and Medium
Weapons* - Basic, plus any two from this list (axes, bows, crossbows, druid, light blades)
Skill Points - 6

Class Skills:
Climb, Hide, Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nature), Listen, Move Silently, Profession (Guide), Profession (Hunter), Search, Spot, Survival

Class Features:
1st level – Bonus Feat (Track)
Every 3rd – Bonus Feat: Skill Focus (for knowledge or profession skill)

Saves:
Good Save: Fort
Normal Saves: Will, Ref

Attack Bonus
1 +0
2 +1
3 +2
4 +3
5 +3
6 +4
7 +5
8 +6/+1
9 +6/+1
10 +7/+2
11 +8/+3
12 +9/+4
13 +9/+4
14 +10/+5
15 +11/+6/+1
16 +12/+7/+2
17 +12/+7/+2
18 +13/+8/+3
19 +14/+9/+4
20 +15/+10/+5

*Uses the Weapon Group Feat system from Unearthed Arcana

==============================================

NPC Expert Class - Cartographer

Hit Die - d6
Armor - Light
Weapons* - Basic, plus any one from this list (bows, crossbows, light blades)
Skill Points - 6

Class Skills:
Craft (Calligraphy), Craft (Map), Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Forgery, Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (History), Profession (Cartographer), Speak Language, Survival

Class Feature:
1st level – "It's All in the Details"**
Every 3rd – Bonus Feat: Skill Focus (for knowledge or profession skill)


Saves:
Good Save: Will
Normal Saves: Ref, Will

Attack Bonus
1 +0
2 +1
3 +1
4 +2
5 +2
6 +3
7 +3
8 +4
9 +4
10 +5
11 +5
12 +6/+1
13 +6/+1
14 +7/+2
15 +7/+2
16 +8/+3
17 +8/+3
18 +9/+4
19 +9/+4
20 +10/+5

*Uses the Weapon Group Feat system from Unearthed Arcana

**When making any cartographical check using Forgery, Craft (Map) or Craft (Calligraphy), the character may add they Dex modifier as a Misc bonus. This only applies to mapmaking checks and not other uses of the skills.

 

[JimAde]

These are cool but I have a few questions:

1) How many skill points do these guys get?

2) What's the difference between Craft(Map) and Profession(Cartographer)?

3) Any particular reason the Cartographer gets a good Reflex save instead of Will? He seems like a scholar-type.

4) Should Cartographer get Speak Language as a class skill? I think that would be appropriate for a traveller/explorer type.

5) There is no question 5

6) Why do you need these classes instead of the existing Expert class?

 

[Ibrin]

1) Sorry, that would be six

2) I would use the craft check if a player wanted to make an ornate or intricate map, or do a rushed job. Could also be used on how well someone translated the topography to the paper. The PHB describes the Profession skill as more how to run a business at that profession, not just having the skill. I'm looking at it in that you could have the craft skill in carpentry and be a day laborer, but would need the profession to run a house building business. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong.

3) I was thinking of them being dextrous to do the work, but that's probably fine motor skills, and not what would be needed for the save. Will is probably better.

4) I was kinda trying to do that with the Decipher Script. I was thinking they might not be able to speak it fluently, but would use books to pour over different languages while they were at a site. If you think both should be used, do you see something I should take away? I was trying to keep it to 12.

5) Okay

6) To me the expert class is kinda generic. I played a Cartographer/Guide from the Sages & Specialists book in 2nd ed., and had a great time with it. Was just trying to add a little flair, and start developing expert classes for our AM sourcebook. I'd also like to do one for an Innkeeper for one of my PCs (who owns an inn), and this was my start at trying.

 

[JimAde]

1) Cool.

2) No, you've probably got it right. I see where there would be a difference.

3) I think so, but it's your class

4) That's what I get for not reading thoroughly. Decipher script makes lots of sense. If you did want to include Speak Language, you might consider dumping Climb. Again, I can see both sides. I guess I was picturing an Indiana Jones type. Yes he definitely had Decipher Script, but he also spoke a lot of languages...he was multi-classed anyway .

5) Good.

6) Makes sense.

Overall I think they're great. It's nice to see the NPCs getting some diversification. I checked out your web site, by the way. It rocks. Can't wait to see the next ones you come up with.

 

[Ibrin]

3) I think I'm going to go with Will

4) The Languages would probably be good. I just had the idea of the guy climbing up mountains and over hills and stuff to get to good vantage points. Probably wouldn't be his strength though, he'd be huffing and puffing along the way. Climb can be CC. It's all about perception. I didn't see him as the Indiana Jones of the group. I saw these two classes as the guys Indy would hire.

Thanks. Our DM, (Dave Cline) wrote most everything on the site. Alden Minor is his creation. NMI (the d20 Modern) is Brian's creation. I'm just glad to be able to game with those two. I'm trying to add my 2cp to the sourcebook Dave is working on. My characters are Rhynn Dohn (in the HOJ) and Preacher (in NMI).

 

[JimAde]

Very cool. Have fun with it. Feel free to PM me with any others you come up with (I may not see them on the board).

 

[Turanil]

I don't think it's a good idea to give them Skill-focus every 3 levels, why not just giving them 8 skill points per level? I would rather give them a short list of feats to choose from.

Cartographer seems really weak compared to Guide. Maybe he only spends his time in a library, but maybe he travels a lot for his job, so in this case having d6 hit-die and medium bab (as true Expert class) would be justified.

 

[Ibrin]

I agree on the d6, but I want to keep the skills focused, rather than provide the same number of skill points as a rogue. Also changed the 1st level class feature

 

[Ibrin]

NPC made with the classes, for your review: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1651243

 

[Theocrat]

Nice NPC Classess

Hi all-

I'm looking over these classes and do like them. In fact I will be marking them in my DMG.
However, I did notice a minor typo flaw in the Cartographer class:
Saves:
Good Save: Will
Normal Saves: Ref, Will

This is likely just a left over from the decsion to change the good save to Will from Dex.
Please keep up the good work. I enjoy seeing good useable write-ups on the boards. These two classes seem to work well and as such, I appreciate it.