D&D 5E I'm really hating Constitution right now

[Xeviat]

Hi ENWorld. In my last three games, encompassing 15 characters so far, 13/15 have started with a 14 Con (one started with a 16 and another started with a 12). 4 of those characters were brand new players to D&D (they've played wow and diablo and stuff where you don't choose ability scores the same).

I'm really hating how this limits character choices. In standard array, your 14 automatically goes in Con, unless you're a Dwarf. Hit Points are simply too important to all characters.

So, how could I fix this?

My first thought is to remove the +Con to HP per HD. Maybe I'll restructure things and add Con Score to HP at first level (especially if I go with WP/VP). Class HP per level could be raised to the full HD number (thus +2 HP for the d6s, 3 for the d8s, 4 for the d10s, and 5 for the d12). That might be a lot, but Con has been the second stat I've seen be raised to 20 after the attack stat.

Con should still apply to HD healing some how. Con should apply to Death Saves. An Endurance skill can be added to do some cool stuff. And Con applies to some environmental stuff like breathing; it could also apply to starvation and thirst too if those don't already call for Con saves. But would that be enough to make sure Con was balanced with the other stats?

I'm not saying Con isn't balanced with the other stats. It's the only stat that is balanced compared to Dex and your attack/spellcasting stat. But, it is never your weak stat, even if a Con of 8 could be balanced against a Dex of 8. Its such a nonchoice in my games that I feel the need to remove the choice.

What are your thoughts?


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[JValeur]

I've played around with changes such as these for a long time. A very simple solution, is the one you present yourself. Constitution Score + Full HD at first level. That has the added benefit of creating a more robust level 1 character. At levels higher than 1, you gain your average HD to hit points, no more, no less. That means characters start with more hit points than usual, but end up with less than they would've had, and pretty fast if they would've had a high Constitution score. But that's alright, most companions don't go past level 10, where there's little to no difference, and high level characters are way powerful anyway. To not completely screw over the barbarian, who runs on having a high Constitution score, allow the Barbarian to add their Constitution score to their hit points at level 7, 11, 15 and 20 (or some other levels of your choice).

 

[Dualazi]

I'm not sure it's really a choice limiter, to be honest, but honestly a lot of your proposed changes would make it simply the opposite for me; unless I needed it for reliable concentration checks I would ignore it entirely. For better or worse (for worse it sounds like for you) Con is inextricably linked to HP in this edition, which is why it likewise doesn't get any linked skills and no class uses it for an attack stat, which can't be said for any other stat in the game.

Endurance as a skill has always had narrative/thematic issues, and really muddles the waters of the already broad survival skill. Also I believe con already affects breathing/starving etc, but if you look at the rules for them they're laughably generous in most cases. I think your average PC can hold their breath for like 1-2 minutes or something, extending quite a bit with more con. It doesn't really matter though because what I was getting around to is that con already affects these things and most don't care because of how rarely they come up and how easily they are negated with magic/gear.

The real crux of the issue, cutting to the core of the system, is that the mono-stat attack formula makes this possible. If attacks/spells were reliant, even tangentially, to other stats, then this wouldn't be as prevalent. For example, in 4e the rider abilities on a lot of powers were determined by your secondary stat, and as a result I saw very few people go hard on Con in 4e unless they were a tank. If we had spells whose radius was affected by the mage's strength, or a sneak attack that incorporated strength into the damage, then we'd see a lot more people considering those factors rather than just pumping their main stat and then shuffling the leftovers into Con.

 

[discosoc]

I guess I'm not seeing the actual problem with Con. I've had plenty of characters do just fine with a 10 or 11, and had a player run with 8 once.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=57494]Xeviat[/MENTION] I agree, it's rare to see a player concerned with achieving power or a minimal level of optimizing skimp on their PC's Constitution.

Here's a thought...

If Constitution modifier no longer applied to hit points, you could have Constitution score (not modifier) influence Instant Death in addition to HP. The revised rule would be:

[SECTION]Massive damage can kill you instantly. When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum plus your Constitution Score. For example, a cleric with a maximum of 12 hit points and Constitution 14 currently has 6 hit points. If she takes 18 damage from an attack, she is reduced to 0 hit points, but 12 damage remains. Because the remaining damage equals her hit point maximum, the cleric dies. is less than her hit point maximum plus Constitution score (26), the cleric lives.[/SECTION]

This would give low level PCs a nice buffer to avoid Instant Death, making Con definitely worthwhile but not a must have.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

In the game I ran, by level 20, the average Constitution score for the party was around 21.

Remember, not only does each point of Constitution bonus give you +1 HP per level, but your natural healing rate is 150% of maximum HP per day, so someone with Con 20 ends up with an effective 250 HP per day over the character with Con 10. If you fix the healing rules, then that could go a long way toward make Constitution less overpowered - less obviously better than every stat other than your prime stat.

 

[S'mon]

If it annoys you that everyone has a 14 CON, I suggest in future rolling stats in order. This solves all sorts of issues with some stats being better than others!

 

[Horwath]

Delete constitution, reduce pointbuy pool by 4 or 5 pts.

Merge it's mechanics with strength.

 

[Pauln6]

Many options. My preference is max hit points plus one rolled die at level 1 plus con bonus but con score instead of max hp leads only to a few extra hp and more variety so that works too. Next adopt the 1e notion of name Level or paragon level or mid level and only apply the con bonus to rolled hp up to level 10. If it still applies to short rest rolls, it's still a massive help where you can rest.

 

[Yaarel]

I am tempted to eliminate the Constitution ability score.

Unlike other abilities, Constitution is strictly passive, without active applications.

Even death saves and lifespans have nothing to do with Constitution.

Instead, maybe allow Strength (in the sense of Athletic skill) replace any ‘fortitude’ save.

Maybe give certain races (Dwarf, Half-Orc, etcetera) a racial bonus to hit points, thus replacing the bonus hit points that come from the ability.

Meanwhile, classes that need more hit points in order to do melee combat, already get more hit points.