D&D General I wish people would avoid name-dropping Gary Gygax

Disclaimer: This is not a thread about Gary Gygax, directly. This is a thread about the name, and the uses and abuses thereof. It is not about what you or I think about Gary Gygax as a person or as a game designer. It is not a thread about whether Gary was racist, sexist, theist, numismatic, thespian, smelled good, or his skills as a cobbler. It is a thread about his celebrity, para-social relationships, and how D&D fans act as stewards of his legacy.

I respect and care about Gary Gygax a lot. I've been on EN World since he was a fellow poster. I'm a big fan of history and giving credit where credit is due. And there are a lot of great threads about why Gary Gygax is important (e.g. Here D&D General - Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Magic Missile: Why Gygax Still Matters to Me or here D&D General - The Human Side of D&D History - From Gary Gygax to Temple of Elemental Evil ). If you want to discuss Gary Gygax as a person, please go to one of those thread to do it.

So, on to the meat of it.



I've noticed a thing where the name "Gary Gygax" is sometimes brought into conversations where (IMNSHO) it doesn't belong. There are even threads where I can mark the point that it goes from a reasonable conversation to one that I know will eventually be locked when someone drops the Gygax name in the thread. That bugs me. These are my personal guidelines for when one should or shouldn't name-drop Gary Gygax, why it bugs me, and how I try to do better.


When one should generally NOT invoke Gary Gygax's name:

  • When referring to an edition.
The history of D&D editions is complicated (I'll give you the Wikipedia link for reference: Editions of Dungeons & Dragons - Wikipedia) and even in modern times we don't always agree when something is a new edition and when it isn't. But one thing we should be able to agree on is that "Gary Gygax" isn't an edition of D&D. He was a game designer and author on multiple editions, but he was most critically a human being. And yet, unfortunately people say things like, "In 3e the game did this, but in Gary Gygax's D&D, the game did that".

Conflating an edition with a name takes something that could be objective and makes it personal. It changes the discussion from being about publications to something more intimate. In a bad way. Fans at large already take discussions about D&D editions too personally, and treating Gary Gygax like an edition only serves to make attacks on games more personal, and fuel the fires of edition wars.

The key is that the references should match. If we're talking about games in terms of Jeremy Crawford, Monte Cooke, or Frank Mentzer, then it makes perfect sense to refer to Gary Gygax. But if you're talking about 5e 2014, 3.0E, and AD&D, don't bring the Gygax name (or others) into it. Titles of editions (sans names) should match, the same way you match tenses in a sentence. Obviously, there are times when we must talk about editions, authors, and designers together. Especially in the early editions, where we commonly call out Holmes and Moldvay versions. And that's perfectly fine as long as it's consistent. But if you're talking about Pathfinder and don't use the name Jason Bulmahn, you shouldn't name-drop Gygax in any of your comparisons to D&D.

  • As a identifier for creative content in early D&D.
Yes, Gary was an author of OD&D, AD&D, and many other projects. But he was not an island. The obvious first argument to make is about the importance of Dave Arneson. But even beyond Arneson, Gary took input from everywhere. There's a reason so many people from the literal mail room at TSR went on to become big names in gaming history, and that's because Gary took ideas from anyone that was willing to contribute, ranging from other gaming professionals to his kids to random teenagers that happened to be in the area. This goes beyond personal connections, too, and Appendix N is just the start of it. From Tolkien to Roger Corman, Gygax took ideas from any media he could without being sued (and even a few where he did).

The critical idea here is that one should avoid talking about "Gary's cleric" or "Gary's Shield spell" because there generally is no version that is 100% Gary's. It was all a collaboration. Gary was not the sole creator of D&D, and that's not a bad thing. That's the backbone of D&D. Gary was a manager, a funnel, and a filter, and he did a great job at it. It's not belittling to Gary to deny him sole credit for every book that has his name on it, but it is belittling to everyone else in the process to give Gary credit for their works.

To avoid this, the general best practice is the name the source (i.e. book) that you're talking about, not the individual (and if Gary Gygax happens to have an author's credit on the book, you're free to feel smug about it). It's "The OD&D cleric" not "Gary's first cleric". The above "match tenses" rules should also be followed; only name Gary when you're referring to other authors by name. And you should only refer to Gary as an author when you're sure he's the only author, not just the only author on the cover.

  • When referring to an absolute, or to win an argument.
Gary Gygax was a lot of things. He was a dreamer, a father, a gamer, and an insurance underwriter. One of the main things he was not is consistent. This is not a bad thing, it is a human thing. People talk about things differently in their personal lives than their professional lives. People change over time. People sometimes have to back one horse to sell a product, even if it's not what they do in their personal games.

People often argue about "How Gary did this" or "Gary said it should be done like that". But most of the time when an argument hinges on "Gary Gygax said...", the simplest counter-argument is to find a quote of Gary Gygax contradicting it. This is not Gary's fault. The fault is trying to treat a human being like a legal text, and it ultimately does nothing to honor the man being put on the pedestal.

Simply remember that everything Gary Gygax said is only an opinion, just like everybody else's.


When you SHOULD invoke Gary's name:

  1. When reminiscing about times when you personally met and interacted with Gary Gygax.
  2. When talking about his (highly specific) contributions to a game/book, or when explicitly comparing one named author/designer/whatever to another named author/designer/whatever.
  3. When discussing his legacy, estate, and related topics such as GaryCon, the Gygax Memorial Fund, the "Wizard of the Lake" exhibit at the Geneva Lake Museum, or a trip to Lake Geneva.
  4. When discussing his non-D&D projects, such as Lejendary Adventures.
  5. (Unfortunately) When you want to troll on the internet. When you want to bait a D&D discussion into being personal rather than objective. When you want to end one discussion by injecting controversies or otherwise ensure the original topic is sidelined by discussions about Gary Gygax. Or when you just generally want to ramp up emotions to ensure you get a heated response.
These are my personal guidelines that I do my best to follow, and occasionally fail at. They are open to discussion and criticism. But I think if we can all recognize when some of these things (especially #5 above) are happening, then a few threads just might be a bit friendlier.

2nd Disclaimer: I am not a mod, I am not your mother, and I have no authority over anyone here. I have intentionally not quoted specific times I've seen things like this done on EN World to avoid making it personal. This is a discussion of things I have seen on the internet at large, not just here. I have intentionally avoided using the more inflammatory examples of issues associated with Gary Gygax to avoid turning this thread into yet another discussion of those topics. If you feel like this is a bunch of strawman arguments that don't apply to you, then they probably (hopefully?) don't apply to you. This post is roughly 10% disclaimer, and I have doubts that will be sufficient.
 

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When you SHOULD invoke Gary's name:

  1. When reminiscing about times when you personally met and interacted with Gary Gygax.
  2. When talking about his (highly specific) contributions to a game/book, or when explicitly comparing one named author/designer/whatever to another named author/designer/whatever.
  3. When discussing his legacy, estate, and related topics such as GaryCon, the Gygax Memorial Fund, the "Wizard of the Lake" exhibit at the Geneva Lake Museum, or a trip to Lake Geneva.
  4. When discussing his non-D&D projects, such as Lejendary Adventures.
  5. (Unfortunately) When you want to troll on the internet. When you want to bait a D&D discussion into being personal rather than objective. When you want to end one discussion by injecting controversies or otherwise ensure the original topic is sidelined by discussions about Gary Gygax. Or when you just generally want to ramp up emotions to ensure you get a heated response.

6. When referring to Gygaxian problem solving.

Gygaxian Problem Solving - The Only True RPG Design Principle
1. Can the problem be solved be solved by a table and a percentile roll?
2. If yes, stop here. If no, go to 3.
3. KREATE MOAR TABLEZ. Go to 1.


The High Gygaxian Table of Tables to Determine the Number of Tables for Your RPG Game
Roll to see how many tables you need for your RPG rulebook.

00 – 10 The number of tables you wanted, doubled.
11 – 25 Hyperlinks to even moar tablez.
26 – 35 More tables than Ikea has meatballs, or tables.
36 – 50 A table for every awesome name in Greyhawk. Melf went to Verbobonc.*
51 – 65 Sixteen appendices, full of tables.
66 – 75 Every table has four legs, and each leg is a table. Tables, all the way down.
76 – 85 You know the story by Borges? Library of Babel? Yeah, like that. But tables instead of books.
86 – 90 One table, that is a meta-table, that contains all tables. Let's Godel up this joint!
91 – 92 Only one table, but that table is actually another copy of the rulebook in its entirety.
93 – 94 Nine tables for Mortal Players doomed to die. No, never read Tolkien. Who is he?
95 – 98 No tables, because you're busy in LA.
99 – 00 Roll twice, add the results.

*Names based on actual people, including Gary's friends and kids, are worth 3.75 tables each. Unless he didn't personally know them in which case you must take the total number of those names, divide by .6, and multiply that total as described previously. That total tables is then given an adjustment number of 1, 2, 3, or 4 based on your discretion of how "bard-y" your game is, with higher numbers being more bard-y. Multiply the total table by the bard-y number, and then if your game is actually bardy multiple by 0 to get the Final Total Table Number.
 



Looks like an attempt to police language. I really cannot see this going well.
Yeah.

When I reference Gygax--presuming he isn't directly the subject of the thread in question--it's because I'm using examples of his game design ideas, or the overall stylistic approach that he pursued. Sometimes the comparison is favorable; as an example, while the design intent of early-edition D&D has almost nothing in common with the things that interest me as a D&D player, I can recognize clever design when I see it, and things like "heavy armor is functionally a survival boost with an XP penalty that you can wear" are clever design, especially in the context of the earliest TTRPGs. Sometimes, the comparison is unfavorable; Gygax's open antipathy for non-humanocentric worlds, for example, which he baked into the rules themselves.

Does that meet the OP's requirements for what is allowed or not? Seemingly no: I'm referencing things where Gygax may not have been the sole author, I'm using his examples to prove a point rather than to discuss history, I'm expecting at least a certain degree of consistency. (I'll admit, that last one is something I have recognized as complicated--for a great many things, it is possible to cite Gygax both for and against it, and sometimes back and forth across his life!) Perhaps some of those uses really weren't warranted or reasonable. But I would not accept someone wagging their proverbial finger at me and saying, "Ah-ah-ah! You referenced Gygax incorrectly. Your argument is invalid."
 



I see your point, but cannot resist.

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It is an appeal for clarity and accuracy, not the same thing. @Deset Gled has no authority to police anything in these forums, so it is simply a request for truth in reporting.

However, I unfortunately agree in that I don't think it is likely to go well.
I am not sure I agree, it is an attempt to circumscribe language, state what is and is not legitimate way to use words. I see that as a attempt to police language and most people in the modern world who attempt such things have no actual authority.
Even where it is legitimate and well-meaning it usually fails.
I even understand where it is coming from, like, it really grinds my gears when someone uses "span" meaning "spun" and stuff like that but usually trying to correct them is more effort than it is worth.
 

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