[I hate it when WotC makes it hard for you]---How to expand Duskblade spell list?

[Razz]

Seriously, I am tired of classes with their own spell list. Because they only use the PHB spells and the spells in the supplement in which the class appeared in. They need to stop doing this and concentrate on a set of schools or go the Warmage route.

Beguiler, Warmage, Dread Necromancer were fine. You get all the spells on the list, every few levels you choose one from a specific school (s). Spellthief was great, you choose spells from a few schools. Spirit Shaman, awesome, use Druid spell list.

This Duskblade thing, along with Hexblade, annoying. I don't see a freaking theme with the spell list. Reading it through I can see it has some close-range, one target only, and touch spells, but I still kinda don't see the whole picture.

So, what formula exactly should we follow when looking for spells from sources beyond the PHB 1 and PHB 2 to add to the Duskblade list? I'm trying to figure it out, but am rather lost.

 

[Turanil]

My suggested houserule: If duskblades are supposed to gain some spells each new level (like wizards do), they should be from the list, no other. But then you could allow duskblade characters to learn any spell from a spellbook or scroll. Just that the DC for learning is increased significantly. (I say all of this without having seen the class actually, so this may sound stupid...)

 

[Nyaricus]

Use Element of Magic: Revised and no-one will ever have their one class spell list again, mutliclassing into different (magic caster - partial or full) classes will never hurt and you can make you very own custom spells. This is implimented through spell-points and a special 'spell building' system, along with personalised spells which are easier to cast, etc etc.

Done and done - and done very well.

 

[Eytan Bernstein]

It can be frustrating but there are three things that make it work if you think about it. The first is that they do occasionally put out supplements that expand those lists - extra hexblade spells, upcoming warlock invocations, etc... Second is that these classes are not true masters of magic, so they really are only supposed to have the most common spells. More magically focused classes learn hidden and secret lore, but the dabblers just learn the basics. Third, A lot of people complain that they don't want to have to own 10 other books to play the class, so that's another reason why they don't put spells from other books on the class's list.

If you still don't like this, you can always allow people to replace spells on their list with other spells or just house rule extra spells on to the list.

 

[Dog Moon]

Use Element of Magic: Revised and no-one will ever have their one class spell list again, mutliclassing into different (magic caster - partial or full) classes will never hurt and you can make you very own custom spells. This is implimented through spell-points and a special 'spell building' system, along with personalised spells which are easier to cast, etc etc.

Done and done - and done very well.

Doesn't it kind of ruin the flavor of these classes/PrCs though? Part of the thing I like about some of the PrCs with their own spell lists is that they all revolve around a similar theme, but if you say they can do anything, it completely ignores that theme and potentially makes them more power, right?

Of course this is based off only a little knowledge of the EoM:R.

Although I do agree with Razz. If nothing else, one thing that might be a decent idea is to have what the Warmage does and every some odd levels, choose a spell from some source [maybe Cleric spells to divine classes, for example] and be able to add that spell to your spell list. Depending on the class, the option to limit it a little further is certainly there.

But yeah, unfortunately, only the Blackguard and Assassin get updated with an additional occasional spell because they're in the core books.

 

[Nyaricus]

Doesn't it kind of ruin the flavor of these classes/PrCs though? Part of the thing I like about some of the PrCs with their own spell lists is that they all revolve around a similar theme, but if you say they can do anything, it completely ignores that theme and potentially makes them more power, right?

EoM:R spells are a bit different because A) they take two rounds to cast, 1 if it's a signature spell (and you get a fair amount of these) and B) the spells themselves are less-powerful. A Mages signature "Fireball" spell will have less range and less damage than a Wizards or Sorcerers Fireball and will take a whole round to cast - but they can cast all sorts of other, varied spells which make up for the spells being less powerful.

Besides, if spells are built right around a characters roleplaying niche (like a quiet woodland hermit whos a "Druid" who casts a bunch of animal/plant spells and some other subtle magic - maybe a lightning bolt or two when he gets angry at orcs cutting down trees, and the like) then this extra utility should not be a problem.

I personally highly suggest you to read this for yourself though. You may well be blown away

 

[Razz]

Hexblade spell list I don't have too much of a problem adding spells to. I can figure out what spells belong and which ones don't.

The Healer class is the simplest one to expand.

Shugenga, Shaman, Wu Jen, Sohei are all classes I wish had updated lists, like on the website, from all sources. But I'm not too worried since no one in the group has chosen one of these.

The Duskblade I am having the most problems with. I know their focus is touch spells, cone short range spells, miscellaneous short range, a few abjuration and combat enhancing spells and single-target spells. But the whole spell list doesn't have any theme whatsoever. They give them Polar Ray as a 5th level spell, for example. I've studied its list thoroughly and just can't seem to grasp "What should be a good duskblade spell to add and what isn't?" The list looks so randomly done, like a smattering of spells here and there.

Which sucks, now when a player chooses a Duskblade in my game and wants to see if spells from other sources he can pick as Duskblade spells, I have to give it some serious judgement. Why couldn't they just say "They have access to ALL abjuration spells, touch spells, ray spells, and short ranged cone spells?" or something along those lines and make it easier for all?

 

[Nyaricus]

The only problem is those classes/other spells are all not OGC, thus WotC are being tight-lipped about it.

I do agree if when using the standard Vancian Magic System that expanded lists would help a lot. Just look at the classes with a careful eye and take it case-by-case. That's the best you can do for now.

 

[Aaron L]

What I always want to know is: what spells should be allowed to be researched? This is as a player, not as a DM. I am pretty good with allowing researching of spells that seem to fit, but my DM wa always very strict and only allowed what was written.

 

[Silveras]

Something to keep in mind about the Duskblade: They begin play knowing 2-6 (maybe 7 for the right race) 0-level spells and 2 1st level spells. They learn 1 new spell per level, and get 8 "upgrade" opportunities over levels 5-20. Barring feats, that's it. 28 spells known, maximum; more likely 25-26. They really don't need that much more in the way of spell choices, because they are not in a position to really make use of more choices.