D&D (2024) Hunter Ranger Alt Idea (+)

[doctorbadwolf]

I like the PHB Hunter, but wotc seems to think that everyone always chooses the same benefit. Now, I disagree, so I’d like to posit an alternate solution to the perceived shortcomings.

Give the Hunter the new UA hunters mark feature from the base class.

Give the base class the PHB Hunter’s level 3 choice from a few features, and call it favored enemy. You pick a second one at level 6, and another at level 15.

Thoughts?

It’s a (+) thread, because I don’t want a lot of complaining about the ranger in general or sniping at wotc or whatever else, just discussion about the idea itself.

 

[Horwath]

Hunter subclass is weak,

one simple solution would be that at levels 3,7,11 and 15 you can pick 2 options instead of only one.

also adding one spell know per spell level would also help the subclass in versatility

I.E:
1st level spell: Hunter's mark
2nd level: invisibility
3rd level: non detection
4th level: greater invisibility
5th level: far step

 

[Li Shenron]

I think the PHB Hunter subclass is one of the best-designed in 5e. It's strong mechanically and conceptually, and it is also versatile: this is maybe a pet peeve of mine, but the fact that you have multiple choice points within a subclass makes it more useful on the long term.

I absolutely agree that "favored enemy" is in reality pretty much the result of your combination of choices of hunter abilities, while the base class ability of the same name is just a ribbon. Renaming or adding some explanation would clear up this common misconception.

Regarding Hunter's Mark, I think the common complaint has been about it using a bonus action which is the same resource as two-weapon-fighting (personally I don't even have much problem with a Ranger having to use only one at a time). Both are being revised and I guess it would be enough to change one of them to fix the issue. I would rather revise two-weapon fighting but it is tricky and risky since it affects everyone, while revising Hunter's Mark affects only one class.

Revising 2WF however is beyond my abilities. It should be primarily designed against other weapon configuration options: two-handed weapons, weapon & shield, weapon & free hand. This is what should come first. However I sometimes think that it is even beyond the capability of professional designers, because I've never really seen a system that handles this neatly.

 

[Horwath]

I think the PHB Hunter subclass is one of the best-designed in 5e. It's strong mechanically and conceptually, and it is also versatile: this is maybe a pet peeve of mine, but the fact that you have multiple choice points within a subclass makes it more useful on the long term.

I absolutely agree that "favored enemy" is in reality pretty much the result of your combination of choices of hunter abilities, while the base class ability of the same name is just a ribbon. Renaming or adding some explanation would clear up this common misconception.

Regarding Hunter's Mark, I think the common complaint has been about it using a bonus action which is the same resource as two-weapon-fighting (personally I don't even have much problem with a Ranger having to use only one at a time). Both are being revised and I guess it would be enough to change one of them to fix the issue. I would rather revise two-weapon fighting but it is tricky and risky since it affects everyone, while revising Hunter's Mark affects only one class.

Hunter's mark could have an easy fix for action economy.
In addition to moving the mark with Bonus action, mark can be moved to a target that you just hit with weapon attack for free.

Revising 2WF however is beyond my abilities. It should be primarily designed against other weapon configuration options: two-handed weapons, weapon & shield, weapon & free hand. This is what should come first. However I sometimes think that it is even beyond the capability of professional designers, because I've never really seen a system that handles this neatly.

Yeah, without having weapon speeds, which is next to impossibly to run in single action turn based game, TWF will always be hard to balance.

One solution could be that if you fight with two light melee weapons you just make one attack with advantage and pick what weapon you deal damage.
But that also could be too much...

 

[Lojaan]

The problem I have with hunter is the concept. Every ranger is a hunter. It shouldn't be a subclass, it should be the core build. The "options" that you choose should be your subclass.

 

[Charlaquin]

I like the PHB Hunter, but wotc seems to think that everyone always chooses the same benefit. Now, I disagree, so I’d like to posit an alternate solution to the perceived shortcomings.

Give the Hunter the new UA hunters mark feature from the base class.

Give the base class the PHB Hunter’s level 3 choice from a few features, and call it favored enemy. You pick a second one at level 6, and another at level 15.

Thoughts?

It’s a (+) thread, because I don’t want a lot of complaining about the ranger in general or sniping at wotc or whatever else, just discussion about the idea itself.

I like it a lot. The Next playtest ranger did something similar and I think it was the smart way to do a favored enemy type feature.

 

[Minigiant]

Give the Hunter the new UA hunters mark feature from the base class.

Give the base class the PHB Hunter’s level 3 choice from a few features, and call it favored enemy. You pick a second one at level 6, and another at level 15.

This what my suggestion back in the 2013 playtest.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The problem I have with hunter is the concept. Every ranger is a hunter. It shouldn't be a subclass, it should be the core build. The "options" that you choose should be your subclass.

I strongly disagree. No class should lack a subclass that just doubles down on the core class concepts.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I like it a lot. The Next playtest ranger did something similar and I think it was the smart way to do a favored enemy type feature.

Thanks! It’s bonkers to me that they seem not to have even considered it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

This what my suggestion back in the 2013 playtest.

I gave up on the playtest after a certain point. It felt like trying to reason with a slowly falling tree.

The actual PHB was full of pleasant surprises lol

But yeah I’ve been blowing this horn in some form for years, and it just doesn’t get any traction. My favorite idea along these lines was that the Ranger’s favored enemy benefit should help the team hunt and fight those creatures, not just the ranger, and I proposed a series of Bane poisons that open up ally tactics and close off enemy tactics. Eg, Dragonsbane would cause a loss of flight and deal damage if the poisoned creature moves its full speed. A greater Dragonsbane might remove a damage type immunity or make it painful to use a breath weapon. A Ghoulbane poison might make all damage dealt to the critter deal an extra 1d4 radiant damage, or something else useful against many undead.