D&D 5E How would you use Skeletons/Zombies in combat to make them more interesting.

[LegionError121]

Hi. It has been a while.
I play a Wizard/Necromancer called, Muffin. She's a Tiefling who was raised (yes, this is a pun) to continue the Necromancy Traditions of her familiy by becoming a Necromancer.
Having been raised by a Necromancer, she knows a lot about the Undead (Specifically, the kind of Undead that Necromancers are responsable for) and has a different outlook on life compared to other people as she's very much like "well, it's dead. Why wouldn't you animate it? It could be useful."

So, I've finally reached level 6, I've read about everything I can with to do with Necromancy and then I wondered what peeps did to be effective with the Undead . . . and there's not all that much.

So, taking what I've said into consideration, what sort of things could you do inside and outside of combat using Skeleton's or Zombies? My DM is very much against allowing skeletons/zombies from using armour so I'm looking for interesting things that border on the edge of meta-gaming.

 

[jaelis]

Grappling and the aid action are great. And they can provide cover for you.

You can make use of their immunities, for instance have them grapple opponents in the middle of a stinking cloud.

For goofier things, you could imagine making a kamikaze zombie* by loading one up with oil (or alchemists fire) flasks and then igniting them all at once with a firebolt.

Skeletons should be pretty light, get them to ready an attack and have the barbarian hurl them at enemies.


* pretty sure that is a cocktail or two

 

[ccs]

Turn a few of them invisible & have them shield you with their bodies.
Arm them with reach weapons.

 

[jgsugden]

Consider where they can fight that might be hard for the party - zombies and skeletons dragging PCs overboard can be quite scary.

Also, consider using them to deliver dangerous loads... A zombie loaded with explosives isn't scared to walk into the midst of a battle...

 

[discosoc]

Raise more? That's literally the only purpose to Animate Dead; run around with a whole bunch of zombies and skeletons. Outside of grappling attempts or help actions, they can act as body shields against a lot of ranged attacks. Maybe there's some RP-specific scenarios that you can play into as well. But there's not much to abuse from the default rules. Just enjoy the fact that you are getting to play the character concept you like, and stop trying to meta-game it into something more powerful.

 

[hastur_nz]

Well, I once ran a cool adventure where the PC's got ambushed by skeletons that were hanging out 'under water' in a lake of blood, just as the PC's were trying to make their way to the evil priest on the far side of the lake/pool. I guess the moral of that story is... make use of the fact they are not living creatures...

 

[LegionError121]

My aim is to use them strategically because she is an intelligent character. That is all. In no way (discosoc) does my necromancer want to go crazy with a hoard of undead. She see's them as tools, not an army.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

So, taking what I've said into consideration, what sort of things could you do inside and outside of combat using Skeleton's or Zombies? My DM is very much against allowing skeletons/zombies from using armour so I'm looking for interesting things that border on the edge of meta-gaming.

Is your DM against allowing them to WEAR armor, or against allowing them to be proficient in armor? Those are very different things. Even an obese wizard can be armored in chain mail in 5E, despite being nonproficient--he just can't cast spells, and he has disadvantage on attacks and such. If you put the zombies in armor, what happens? Do they just rip the armor off?

Anyway, setting that aside, and setting aside as well ideas like skeletons dual-wielding shortswords and/or throwing nets (which work very well but probably wouldn't fly with a DM who insists on using only MM statblocks, which I infer your DM must be...), I still have some ideas.

Some remaining ideas that work pretty well: Help action to help PCs (and/or negate disadvantage for armored zombies attacking with greatswords), dropping caltrops, dropping oil flasks, grappling enemies to drag them through flames created by zombies with oil flasks, and casting Cloudkill or Stinking Cloud to simultaneously (1) negate disadvantage from being nonproficient with armor (due to the way vision rules work), and also (2) disable or kill enemies, but the zombies and skeletons are poison-immune. Goes well with grappling.

One other tip for a Necromancer: Vampiric Touch goes well with Grim Harvest. If you buy a few chickens (price: 50 for 1 gp, ref http://www.5esrd.com/equipment/trade-goods/) and then kill ten of them with Vampiric Touch, you can regain 90 HP easy-peasey just from Grim Harvest. Not bad for a 3rd level spell. Note that unlike Dark One's Blessing (Fiend Warlock), Grim Harvest does not require the killed creatures to be "hostile".

 

[LegionError121]

Hemlock, I believe his views for monsters can be quite narrow . . . PCs and other NPC humanoids from standard races get items . . . Monsters have their stats. In his case, I don't think he'll allow Skeleton's or Zombie's to equip gear because of his "spawn and just use it" mentallity.

As I have been working things out over the last few days, I've been asking questions but I haven't got helpful answers from him. I just get "stick to the monster stats" and "look at the necromancer rules" but there is nothing on equiping the undead with gear. His line of thinking is "if it hasn't got a proficiency in armour then it can't use armour." What conflicts me more is that I've recently asked the official D&D peeps about spells like Animate Dead and they have clearly stated that Skeleton's and Zombie's do not spawn in with gear unless their remains happen to bear the weapon at the time.
Essentually, nothing is being decided.
As for Zombie's equiping anything at all, I can forget about that cause he thinks that they're too stupid to act on their own impulse to even hold a thing in their hands. I don't even know if I'm allowed to make them grapple. They might even try to kill me for trying to do anything to them.

But yeah. Helping people seems possible (well durr) but I don't know if he would get skeles to try and kill me for strapping bombs to them as they are apparantly meant to "preserve themselves". Stinking cloud is a great idea . . . except my entire party apart for myself are Melee only . . . so that might not work out with the whole "we huddle around one thing and kick the out of it" aspect.

As for the Chickens . . . that is brilliant. I could probably get Muffin to eat them after doing this as well.

10/10 advice. Would actually like to do all of that, especially stuff with nets. I have a fondness for nets and pit traps.

 

[Yunru]

But it's in their stats that you can equip them with items? (Monster Manual, page 272 shows that he couldn't be more wrong. He's also wrong about the preserving themselves, as shown in the self same paragraph.)

Honestly sounds like you've got a bad DM for the character. Not a lot you can do when omnigod is working against you.

(Note that Zombies are very much dumb brutes though, it's the skeletons you want. To quote the MM about Zombies:
"Zombies take the most direct route to any foe, unable to comprehend obstacles, tactics, or dangerous terrain. A zombie might stumble into a fast-flowing river to reach foes on a far shore, clawing at the surface as it is battered against rocks and destroyed. To reach a foe below it, a zombie might step out of an open window. Zombies stumble through roaring infernos, into pools of acid, and across fields littered with caltrops without hesitation.")