How Would You Stat Up a Naturally Invisible PC Race?

[AFGNCAAP]

Hello,

I'm working on stuff for my d20 Lankhmar game, & I'm facing a bit of an issue creating stats for 2 of the races from that setting: the Nehwon ghouls & the Invisibles of Stardock.

Both races never wear armor (though they use shields). The Ghouls have invisible flesh & blood (but their bones are visible); the Invisibles are totally invisible (but anything they wear, hold, or carry is visible). This invisibility is natural, and cannot be removed via dispel magic, invisibility purge, antimagic field, or similar means; (i.e., they're Extraordinary abilities).

The ghouls gain some benefit from their invisible flesh, whereas the Invisibles have a major benefit from their invisible bodies.

So, how would you stat these guys out? What sort of Level Adjustment might these beings have?

I'd appreciate any help/info/insight that you could provide.

 

[Pyrex]

If it's Ex, it shouldn't extend to worn/carried equipment*.

In order to extend to worn/carried equipment it should be SU.

I'd probably tag it as +3 LA in either case.

*Interesting thought, if it were EX, there could be a market for things like cloth woven from their hair, ancestral (literally) knives carved from the bones of their fallen warriors, etc.

 

[Interested2]

I'd go with +1 or +2 if you're playing them as PC's in a team. If your cleric can't see you, he can't heal you. Plus, how are you gonna buy things? Etc...

 

[Ferret]

Aside from the ECL or LA or any of that I'd use a +40 to hide like the spell.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Thanks for the replies! Keep `em coming!

Hmm... a couple of things I've been considering about this issue:

For the Invisibles, I was thinking that they'd benefit completely from invisibility when they aren't wearing/wielding/carrying anything; they'd benefit from total concealment, essentially (50% miss chance if guessing where attacks come from--otherwise, can't attack back).

However, if an Invisible is carrying/using items, then the Invisible only benefits from concealment (20% miss chance).

As for Ghouls, since they're only partially invisible (due to their visible skeletons), I was thinking that they'd gain bonuses to concealment miss chances when they benefit from concealment: +20% to the miss chance for various types of concealment. If they're not concealed in any way, they don't gain this benefit. However, if they are concealed, they gain better bonuses from it.

However, I do like the idea of their invisible flesh/bodies giving severe penalties to Heal checks on them from others; maybe somewhere from -4 to -8 on the check.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

For reference: Nehwon Ghouls per 2nd ed.

OK, here's one of the races I'm trying to convert, in their 2nd ed. AD&D rule version:


Ghoul, Nehwon (2nd ed. AD&D version)

• Must have a partial Neutral alignment (ala 2nd ed. bards or 3.X ed. druids)
• Only fighter or thief class
• Cannot use any armor; may use shields
• Favored weapon is axes
• Transparent flesh makes them harder tolocate their vital spots. All attacks against a ghoul are -2 to hit. Ghouls are totally invisible (-4 to hit) in drakness 80% of the time.
• Their transparent flesh is a natural condition: magic means like true sight, detect invisible, etc. will not work against them.

As a side note, they also have horses with this transparent flesh trait, as well.

Ghoul, Nehwon (3rd ed. D&D conversion attempt 1)
This is from the Lankhmar Yahoo! Groups files section (in Races of Newhon.doc)
Ghoul Racial Traits

• -4 Charisma as a result of their inhuman nature. So many other races see them as a threat; ghouls find that their appearance alone can put off a crowd.
• -2 Penalty to all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Gather Information skill checks. It is difficult for ghouls to socialize with other races.
• +2 to Move Silently, and a +4 bonus to Intimidate and Hide skill checks made by them though. This comes from their upbringing, appearance, and the benefit of natural fear they instill in others.
• The invisible nature of their flesh gives them a +4 circumstance bonus to their Armor Class in normal lighting and a +6 bonus in dim lighting, and in near darkness they are effectively invisible 80% of the time and receive all bonuses related to being invisible. Note, this bonus is only available when the ghoul is all but nude.
• Because of the natural armor bonuses they receive, ghouls wear no armor, regardless of their class or training. It is simply a taboo among their culture that none will break.
• Ghouls receive a +4 to all saves versus poisons and diseases because of their hardy nature and unusual diet.
• The very mundane and concrete way of thinking found in the ghoul culture gives them a +2 bonus versus all mind-affecting forms of magic.
• Low-light vision: All ghouls have exceptional vision that allows them to see twice as far as normal humans when using torchlight, starlight, or other such dim sources of illumination.
• Automatic Language: All ghouls speak Lankhmarese. Bonus languages: Mingol, Iltharish, Desert Talk, Eevanarensee, and the Eastern Tongue.
• Favored class: Fighter. Because of the martial and violent nature of their lives, ghouls make excellent fighters.

And finally, my version of the Ghoul in 3.X, modiying the above attempt (note: Favored class is changed for use with the UA generic classes):
Ghoul, Nehwon (3.X D&D conversion attempt 2)
Ghoul Racial Traits

• -4 Charisma. The ghouls? appearance and fierce demeanor often alienates them from others.
• Ghouls are Medium-size. As Medium-size creatures, ghouls have no special bonuses or penalties due to size.
• A ghoul?s base speed is 30 feet.
• -2 to all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Gather Information skill checks. It is very difficult for ghouls to socialize with other races.
• +2 to Move Silently checks and +4 to Hide checks. Ghouls often practice ambush and stealth tactics.
• +4 to Intimidate checks. Their natural appearance and fierce demeanor is naturally intimidating to other races.
• -4 to all assisting characters? Heal checks. The ghouls? invisible flesh makes it harder for others to tend to their wounds.
• The invisible nature of a ghoul?s flesh provides a +4 circumstance bonus to Armor Class. When a ghoul gains concealment, add 10% to the miss chance for any attacks against the ghoul. However, the ghoul cannot wear any armor or clothing (other than a few belts for gear) in order to benefit from this bonus.
• Because of the natural benefits the ghouls gain from their invisible flesh, ghouls can never use any sort of armor, even if their class provides them with proficiency in any type of armor. It is simply a taboo among their culture that none will break. However, ghouls may gain proficiency in and use shields normally.
• +4 racial bonus on all saves versus poison and disease. Ghouls have a naturally hardy nature and often have an unusual diet.
• +2 racial bonus on all saves versus mind-affecting spells and forms of magic. The very mundane and concrete way of thinking found in the ghoul culture instills a degree of mental hardiness.
• Low-light vision: All ghouls have exceptional vision that allows them to see twice as far as normal humans when using torchlight, starlight, or other such dim sources of illumination.
• Automatic Languages: Lankhmarese, Ghoulish. Bonus Languages: Mingol, Iltharish, Desert Talk, Eevanarensee, and the Eastern Tongue.
• Favored Class: Warrior. A multiclass ghoul?s warrior class does not count when determining whether he/she suffers an XP penalty.

Well, that's what I have so far. Any of these guys have an LA, the way they're statted up?

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Well, here's what I have for the completely invisible race, the Invisibles of Stardock:

Invisibles of Stardock*
Invisibles Racial Traits

• Invisibles are Medium-size. As Medium-size creatures, invisibles have no special bonuses or penalties due to size.
• An Invisible?s base speed is 30 feet.
• Cold Endurance: Since Invisibles dwell at the top of the frozen summit of Stardock, they gain a +4 racial bonus of Fortitude saves made to resist the effects of cold weather or exposure.
• Natural Invisibility (Ex): Invisibles of Stardock possess natural invisibility, which makes them tougher to fight against. The ability cannot is constant, and it cannot be removed, either willingly or unwillingly, nor does the effect disappear when the Invisible attacks an opponent. However, any object held or carried by the Invisible does not benefit from the invisibility effect.
  When unarmed, carrying, or wearing any visible object, the Invisible benefits from total concealment (p. 152 of the PHB). When armed, carrying, or wearing a visible object, the Invisible only gains the benefits of concealment (p. 152 of the PHB). In either case, the Invisible gains a +2 bonus to attack rolls against any visible opponent. If the Invisible is fighting an invisible opponent (such as a person benefiting from an invisibility spell, or against another Invisible), they lose this bonus.
• +2 to Move Silently checks and +4 to Hide checks. Invisibles often use their natural invisibility to the best advantage, and practice ambush and stealth tactics.
• -8 to all assisting characters? Heal checks. The nature of the Invisibles? bodies makes it very difficult for others to tend to their wounds.
• Because of the natural benefits the Invisibles gain from their invisibility, Invisibles can never use any sort of armor, even if their class provides them with proficiency in any type of armor. It is simply a taboo among their culture that none will break. However, Invisibles may gain proficiency in and use shields normally.
• Low-light vision: All Invisibles have exceptional vision that allows them to see twice as far as normal humans when using torchlight, starlight, or other such dim sources of illumination.
• Automatic Languages: Lankhmarese. Bonus Languages: .
• Favored Class: Spellcaster. A multiclass Invisible?s spellcaster class does not count when determining whether he/she suffers an XP penalty.

Tell me what you think.

 

[Tuzenbach]

What I find to be ironic is the fact that, after not opening it for some 3 years, I've just this past weekend returned to my copy of "Lean Times In Lankhmar" and begun reading again. And do you know where my bookmark was kept all this time? Right at the beginning to Stardock!

BTW, The Nehwon Ghouls were stated out in the old 1E Deities and Demigods, though the "Invisibles" were not mentioned.