How were flails carried?

[Harold as a Verb]

Very carefully, one presumes.

Seriously, when not-in-use, how did soldiers carry such weapons? Was there some device that functioned for flails much like a scabbard did for a sword?

I'm trying to picturing it in my mind, and can't see how a spiked metal ball dangling on a chain from a handle could be safely stored while still allowing for the weapon to be readily accessible for immediate use. ( ... And usually my imagination is quite reasonable. )

** Casts: Summon Historical Weapon Gurus III **

 

[isoChron]

I don't know. I think these weapons were only used in duels or on the battlefield so they carried them in hand or in a storage bag (that means the squire carried it).
I don't think there existed a weapon sheath for this kind of weapon. Medieval warfare wasn't that much like D&D adventuring. If you needed a weapon at hand you had your sword (or the waraxe or the quarterstaff perhaps).
Just stuff it in your saddle bag.

Oohh, I just imagined what happens if you fall backwards on your backpack containing a D&D flail or a D&D morning star. I don't think the spikes were that pointy in real life. They would have been broken or dulled at first contakt with a shield.
But maybe there are some weapon gururs out there who know the answer.
BYE

 

[isoChron]

By the way: a D&D flail was called a morning star...
The D&D morning star was more a mace or called a morning star, too.
The flail was a farming device with some nails and iron bands added to the head. It had a long pole with a short chain or even leather holding a shorter stick.

Ref.:
Mace


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.



(Weapon) An advance on the club, a mace is a wooden, metal-reinforced or metal shaft, 3 or more feet (a meter or more) long, with a head made of iron or steel adding another foot to 18 inches (30 to 45 cm) to the length of the weapon. The head is normally about or slightly thicker than the diameter of the shaft, shaped with flanges, knobs or spikes to allow greater penetration of armour. It, like the war hammer and various other weapons of the time, came about because of the increased use of more effective armour on the battlefield. A variety of mace called the morning star had its spiked metal ball suspended from a chain attached to the handle, rather than being directly mounted.

 

[Steverooo]

Actually, most flails had blunt heads. True Morningstars (as opposed to the spiked clubs of 3.xe) had spiked metal "balls" on the end of a wooden or metal handle. The "flails" of 3.xe are actually Morningstar-flails. FWIW.

No, there were no scabbards for such. You could carry it by the handle, in a box, in a pouch (still ouch, if you fell on it), or dangling from your wrist. For safety's sake, the box would be best.

 

[Thresher]

Flails get carried in your hand, maybe slung over your shoulder,in a kit or saddle bag of some type when going a fair distance and you want to keep both hands otherwise useful for something else, like hanging onto your horse or holding a polearm.

Yep, some of the medieval flails had spikes on them, sometimes up to 2 inches long, theyre mostly designed to batter in plate armour but the nicest thing about a flail is that it bounces over the top of the shield rim, crushes the shield arm and bounces back into someones face or chest when retracted. Not exactly the most elegant way of smashing someone into a pulp, but very effective.

 

[Harold as a Verb]

By the way: a D&D flail was called a morning star...

Ah yes, a useful reminder! When I first started playing AD&D I was initially confused at the swapping of names for morningstar and flail - opposite to their real-world nomenclature. And considering I used the "History" tag for this thread, I probably should have thought to use "morningstar" instead of flail in the title. Oh well ...

I half suspected - as y'all say - that their was no RL equivalent "scabbard" device for a morningstar. But I would love to know for sure, and examine possible devices to "tweak" into a game. Not "realism" for it's own sake - especially if there wasn't a real device like I am hoping for, but just to add a little optional ... uh ... something (flavour/kewlness ... immersive verisimilitude?).

(Guess it's time for the party's gnome to get a-tinkering. )

 

[Thresher]

I guess if you wanted to add some "realism" to using a flail or flexible weapon in melee is to halve the effectiveness of an enemies shield.

 

[Umbran]

When I first started playing AD&D I was initially confused at the swapping of names for morningstar and flail - opposite to their real-world nomenclature.

It isn't just D&D swapping the nomenclature, as far as I can tell. From what I've seen, sources older than D&D are not unanimous on which is which. The "real-world nomenclature" is based upon texts from before the age of mass media (or even mass-printing), and not all are originally in English. This leads to differences in translations, and swapping of names occasionally.

Let's put it this way - even today some folks call a bubbly non-alcoholic drink "soda", others call it "pop". Still others call it generically "Coke". And you think there's only a single real-world nomenclature for a centuries old European artifact? 'Tis to laugh!

 

[Norfleet]

I guess if you wanted to add some "realism" to using a flail or flexible weapon in melee is to halve the effectiveness of an enemies shield.

I've always operated under the rule that flails ignore the base shield, and only the magical bonus, if any, on the shield, counts. If anyone ever objected, I'd happily give them a shield and then demonstrate the effectiveness of a flail against shields on them.

 

[Jeph]

I've always operated under the rule that flails ignore the base shield, and only the magical bonus, if any, on the shield, counts. If anyone ever objected, I'd happily give them a shield and then demonstrate the effectiveness of a flail against shields on them.

If you actually have medieval arms and armor lying around your house, as your post suggests you do, that is extremely cool.