How to determine XP for custom built characters?

[Toledo]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I didn't have any luck with different search combinations.


I've been playing weekly for a year now, and a few of our DM's needed a break. I've volunteered to run a campaign in our custom world and have now run two sessions. I've had good feedback so far with regards to my concepts. However, I must be missing something obvious. I have the Monster Manual, Xanathar's, DM Handbook and Player's Handbook. My question is how do I determine challenge ratings for individually constructed NPC's?


In the first two sessions, I was able to base NPC's on the stock characters in the Monster Manual, but I still don't understand how to assign XP or challenge level for NPC's built from scratch. For example, let's say I'm trying to build a Cleric or Fighter, 6th level, as my party's opponent. That character would use the same stat limitation as my party (we're using a +8 for total stats) and would have feat just like a character would. What would I do if I'm giving non-standard equipment, let's say a +1 sword?

There has to be a way for me to assign/calculate XP and/or challenge ratings for the opponent NPC. I have to be overlooking it, because I literally have read and reread what I would think the appropriate sections in Xanathar's and the DM book, but haven't had any success understanding how to do it. Is there some simple chart saying NPC Level 1 = 25 XP....NPC Level 5 = 400 XP....NPC Level 10=2000 XP? I'm just lost right now.

I'd very much appreciate if anyone could walk me through the process. I'm feeling very dense. The other DM's have run more monster encounters while I'm trying to put in a lot of NPC encounters, so I don't have a lot of examples to go over either.


thanks

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There are guidelines in the DMG. Just treat them as a monster. So a +1 sword would be taken intro account when you work out estimated damage output.

 

[Toledo]

There are guidelines in the DMG. Just treat them as a monster. So a +1 sword would be taken intro account when you work out estimated damage output.

Could you please give me a paragraph and/or page? I feel so stupid, but I'm lost.

 

[Satyrn]

Could you please give me a paragraph and/or page? I feel so stupid, but I'm lost.

The DMG's section on creating a monster starts on page 273.

The table on page 264 can be used to give a ballpark CR. Read the section "Step 4: Final Challenge Rating" beside the table to see how to use the table. It might take a bit of figuring out about how to use it - took me several reads to understand.

And one thing to note - the system isn't perfect. It might give you a CR that's off a little. I've found that close enough is good enough, though.

 

[Ancalagon]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I didn't have any luck with different search combinations.

Hello

I can't answer your questions specifically, but I have some advice that may help anyway.

In the first two sessions, I was able to base NPC's on the stock characters in the Monster Manual, but I still don't understand how to assign XP or challenge level for NPC's built from scratch. For example, let's say I'm trying to build a Cleric or Fighter, 6th level, as my party's opponent. That character would use the same stat limitation as my party (we're using a +8 for total stats) and would have feat just like a character would. What would I do if I'm giving non-standard equipment, let's say a +1 sword?

As a GM, your most valuable resources are *time* and imagination. I used to do just like you - create NPC opponents following the rules. It took a lot of *time*. But you know what... you don't have to. If you want your bad guy to have AC 19... then he has AC 19. He does 1d10+5 damage? You don't need to "justify" the stats you feel your bad guy needs. Why bother creating a "legal" build? The NPC will probably die soon anyway! The time you save on designing the exact "rules" for your NPC, you can spend instead on more *important* things about your NPC:

What is the NPC's goals? What does he or she want (what if the players want to negotiate instead of fight?). What are their tactics? If they are losing the fight, what will they do? etc etc etc.

There has to be a way for me to assign/calculate XP and/or challenge ratings for the opponent NPC. I have to be overlooking it, because I literally have read and reread what I would think the appropriate sections in Xanathar's and the DM book, but haven't had any success understanding how to do it. Is there some simple chart saying NPC Level 1 = 25 XP....NPC Level 5 = 400 XP....NPC Level 10=2000 XP? I'm just lost right now.

I can't help you with the challenge rating but again, calculating XP value is... a lot of time, for not a lot of gain. Here is how I do it:

1: decide how fast I want the game to go (ie, how many sessions to go up a level)

2: Divide the amount of XP by the number of session. Let's say this results in 500

3: Give a bit *less* XP at the end of a session than this number (so say, 450). Give even less XP for one where not much happened (say, 400 or even 350). In a session with a big fight, give more, and give even more where a major objective has been accomplished.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's a fair point, if you use sessional XP (presented as an optional rule) then you don't need to calculate CR. You can use your own judgement to decide if the enemy you have created is a fair challenge for your players.

 

[ccs]

What Ancalagon said.

Simply assign the #s you want.
The system they gave you here in 5e is just fiddly. You can waste your time messing with it or you can just skip to the chase & do what the 5e designers do - Make S(tuff) Up.

 

[Quickleaf]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I didn't have any luck with different search combinations.


I've been playing weekly for a year now, and a few of our DM's needed a break. I've volunteered to run a campaign in our custom world and have now run two sessions. I've had good feedback so far with regards to my concepts. However, I must be missing something obvious. I have the Monster Manual, Xanathar's, DM Handbook and Player's Handbook. My question is how do I determine challenge ratings for individually constructed NPC's?


In the first two sessions, I was able to base NPC's on the stock characters in the Monster Manual, but I still don't understand how to assign XP or challenge level for NPC's built from scratch. For example, let's say I'm trying to build a Cleric or Fighter, 6th level, as my party's opponent. That character would use the same stat limitation as my party (we're using a +8 for total stats) and would have feat just like a character would. What would I do if I'm giving non-standard equipment, let's say a +1 sword?

There has to be a way for me to assign/calculate XP and/or challenge ratings for the opponent NPC. I have to be overlooking it, because I literally have read and reread what I would think the appropriate sections in Xanathar's and the DM book, but haven't had any success understanding how to do it. Is there some simple chart saying NPC Level 1 = 25 XP....NPC Level 5 = 400 XP....NPC Level 10=2000 XP? I'm just lost right now.

I'd very much appreciate if anyone could walk me through the process. I'm feeling very dense. The other DM's have run more monster encounters while I'm trying to put in a lot of NPC encounters, so I don't have a lot of examples to go over either.


thanks

Long form (more accurate): DMG p. 273, calculate offensive CR and defensive CR and take the average.

Short form (less accurate): Non-casters CR = 1/3 level; Casters CR = 1/2 level (spell selection can change this dramatically)

Word of caution: There are lots of fiddly bits in player class design because a PC is meant to be run closely by one player. Try to carry all those features over to a DM-run NPC – when the DM has waaay more to keep track of – just doesn't work practically.

 

[cmad1977]

Don’t make a character complete with stats etc. make a monster with some flavor abilities. I think Volos Guide to Monsters has some example of ‘class monsters’(evoker, illusionist, rogue etc...)

Or yeah... basically what everyone else has said. Knock out the really relevant stats and don’t bother with the ancillary things.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Don’t make a character complete with stats etc. make a monster with some flavor abilities. I think Volos Guide to Monsters has some example of ‘class monsters’(evoker, illusionist, rogue etc...)

Or yeah... basically what everyone else has said. Knock out the really relevant stats and don’t bother with the ancillary things.

Starting with the NPC builds in Volo’s and customizing as I feel appropriate has saved me a lot of prep time.