Zardnaar
Legend
Removed for edition warring. - Lwaxy, EN World Moderator This leaves us in an awkward position though as Pathfinder does have more than a few problems inherited from 3.5 and D&D seems to be heading down the same rabbit hole 4E did in order to fix things I had no problem with in the 1st place. However I think the solution to fixing 3.5 lies not in the future but in the past. For the past year or so after a 12 year stint on 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder I have come to the following conclusions after playing OSR type games. I will try and identify the most glaring errors of the 3.x system while offering solutions that still leave the game as a recognizable descendant of 3rd ed and D&D in general.
1. CoDzilla. The power level of the spell casters was kind of off the charts in 3.5. Pathfinder kind of helped this by buffing the martials and fixing the worst offenders. My solution would be to lower spell DCs and buff saving throws so at higher levels you only have a small% chance of flunking a save vs a save or suck or a save or die. This is in effect similar to how it used to work in AD&D. Spell DCs would be 10+ the level of the spell (capped at 20) and some feats could increase this. A fighters base saves for example at level 20 however would be +15/+12/+12 fort/ref/will. You would still have bad saves but the variance between them would be lowered. Druids would also be overhauled and lose the animal companions going back to something like the 2nd ed Druid and the feat natural spell would go bye bye. The spell list could also be cut down eliminating or rewriting the problem spells.
2. To many buff effects. Specifically scaling buff spells like divine favor and divine power. AD&D had buff spells and Prayer for example was actually a decent spell. Spells like Greater Magic Weapon, Divine Favor/Might either need to go or become a static bonus. Overall I would be trying to drag the numbers porn down more towards AD&D/BECMI levels.
3. Feats. Pathfinder powered up the martial types via feats like power attack. The downside to this though however is that even without spellcasters the martial types kind of break the game as well especially when playing Pathfinder Adventure Paths. Critical hit builds, and level 10 and 11 Rangers and Paladins cause problems with to much damage. Put simply power attack needs to go or be capped like the 4E version of it and numerous feats need a rewrite or to be removed. Once again drag number porn down. Weapon focus can stay but feat trees can go along with multiple feats that allow one to stack up silly amounts of damage or bonuses to hit. Other feats could be powered up. Cleave for example could let you cleave once per level per round for example. Point blank shot and rapid shot may also have to go. Mostly the goal here is to make a +1 bonus mean something and to reduce the numbers porn and rocket tag effects.
4. Capped Ability scores and spell DCs. D&DN is capping ability scores at 20 for PCs. This is not a bad idea IMHO as BECMI and AD&D both had capped ability scores of 18 and 25 (in effect 19 or so).
5. Overhaul the skill system and even out the spread between the classes for skills. Most classes would have 4-6 skill points with wizards getting 2 and rogues getting 8. DCs would top out at about 25 or 30 though. Pathfinder has the best skill system IMHO our of 3.0,3.5, 4th ed and SWSE but it could do with some tweaks.
6. Overhaul multiple attacks. instead of having 3 attacks at +11/+6/+1 I would just allow 3 attacks at +11 and eliminate the full attack. Let fighter types move their full movement rate and unleash. This is similar to how it worked in AD&D and the fighter was actually nerfed in this regard from 2nd ed to 3.0.
7. Drop wealth by level and the ability to purchase magic items. Go back to 2nd ed item creation rules. Eliminate wands of CLWs. More or less a follow on from limiting stacking effects and buffs. Being able to buy the exact weapon you want/need for your build in my experience is a bad idea in the long run (I'm a perma DM).
8. Eliminate X2 and X3 damage on crits. Replace with max damage or an extra dice of damage. Reduce the rocket tag effect and the importance of weapons with 18-20 threat ranges.
9. Tweak the classes and monsters to account for the reduced damage and spell effects. Perhaps return weapon specialization to its AD&D levels of glory.
10. Rewrite the combat chapter including grappling rules from both 3.5 and PF perhaps even using parts of 4th ed.
Oh well that are the main points and problems I have with 3.x. It is to bloated, to much rocket tag and power levels are to insane and all over the place. My goal would be to have most of the classes at the tier 3 of power in the old rankings for 3.5. Classes like Bards, Rogues, Rangers would not have to be changed that much and most classes would be recognizable on the bookshelf if you cracked open the book. How those classes interact with each other and the monsters would be where most of the changes would be made. A fighter for example would have 4 skill points per level and a tweaked skill list and bonus feats a'la 3.5 and PF. Said fighter would also have uber saves, and spring attack at will with full attacks. A spell caster would have to debuff a target 1st in order to make a save or suck stick with any reliability. Stacking bonuses would also be tightened up a lot making bonuses to hit rare and hard to get (indirect buff for the bard as well).
One could even add 4E elements to the game via feats and new classes a'la the Book of 9 Swords and even convert a full AEDU type class over. The sacred cows get to live and you get a better balanced game.
1. CoDzilla. The power level of the spell casters was kind of off the charts in 3.5. Pathfinder kind of helped this by buffing the martials and fixing the worst offenders. My solution would be to lower spell DCs and buff saving throws so at higher levels you only have a small% chance of flunking a save vs a save or suck or a save or die. This is in effect similar to how it used to work in AD&D. Spell DCs would be 10+ the level of the spell (capped at 20) and some feats could increase this. A fighters base saves for example at level 20 however would be +15/+12/+12 fort/ref/will. You would still have bad saves but the variance between them would be lowered. Druids would also be overhauled and lose the animal companions going back to something like the 2nd ed Druid and the feat natural spell would go bye bye. The spell list could also be cut down eliminating or rewriting the problem spells.
2. To many buff effects. Specifically scaling buff spells like divine favor and divine power. AD&D had buff spells and Prayer for example was actually a decent spell. Spells like Greater Magic Weapon, Divine Favor/Might either need to go or become a static bonus. Overall I would be trying to drag the numbers porn down more towards AD&D/BECMI levels.
3. Feats. Pathfinder powered up the martial types via feats like power attack. The downside to this though however is that even without spellcasters the martial types kind of break the game as well especially when playing Pathfinder Adventure Paths. Critical hit builds, and level 10 and 11 Rangers and Paladins cause problems with to much damage. Put simply power attack needs to go or be capped like the 4E version of it and numerous feats need a rewrite or to be removed. Once again drag number porn down. Weapon focus can stay but feat trees can go along with multiple feats that allow one to stack up silly amounts of damage or bonuses to hit. Other feats could be powered up. Cleave for example could let you cleave once per level per round for example. Point blank shot and rapid shot may also have to go. Mostly the goal here is to make a +1 bonus mean something and to reduce the numbers porn and rocket tag effects.
4. Capped Ability scores and spell DCs. D&DN is capping ability scores at 20 for PCs. This is not a bad idea IMHO as BECMI and AD&D both had capped ability scores of 18 and 25 (in effect 19 or so).
5. Overhaul the skill system and even out the spread between the classes for skills. Most classes would have 4-6 skill points with wizards getting 2 and rogues getting 8. DCs would top out at about 25 or 30 though. Pathfinder has the best skill system IMHO our of 3.0,3.5, 4th ed and SWSE but it could do with some tweaks.
6. Overhaul multiple attacks. instead of having 3 attacks at +11/+6/+1 I would just allow 3 attacks at +11 and eliminate the full attack. Let fighter types move their full movement rate and unleash. This is similar to how it worked in AD&D and the fighter was actually nerfed in this regard from 2nd ed to 3.0.
7. Drop wealth by level and the ability to purchase magic items. Go back to 2nd ed item creation rules. Eliminate wands of CLWs. More or less a follow on from limiting stacking effects and buffs. Being able to buy the exact weapon you want/need for your build in my experience is a bad idea in the long run (I'm a perma DM).
8. Eliminate X2 and X3 damage on crits. Replace with max damage or an extra dice of damage. Reduce the rocket tag effect and the importance of weapons with 18-20 threat ranges.
9. Tweak the classes and monsters to account for the reduced damage and spell effects. Perhaps return weapon specialization to its AD&D levels of glory.
10. Rewrite the combat chapter including grappling rules from both 3.5 and PF perhaps even using parts of 4th ed.
Oh well that are the main points and problems I have with 3.x. It is to bloated, to much rocket tag and power levels are to insane and all over the place. My goal would be to have most of the classes at the tier 3 of power in the old rankings for 3.5. Classes like Bards, Rogues, Rangers would not have to be changed that much and most classes would be recognizable on the bookshelf if you cracked open the book. How those classes interact with each other and the monsters would be where most of the changes would be made. A fighter for example would have 4 skill points per level and a tweaked skill list and bonus feats a'la 3.5 and PF. Said fighter would also have uber saves, and spring attack at will with full attacks. A spell caster would have to debuff a target 1st in order to make a save or suck stick with any reliability. Stacking bonuses would also be tightened up a lot making bonuses to hit rare and hard to get (indirect buff for the bard as well).
One could even add 4E elements to the game via feats and new classes a'la the Book of 9 Swords and even convert a full AEDU type class over. The sacred cows get to live and you get a better balanced game.
Last edited by a moderator:
