How do you introduce technology into a fantasy game?

[Ilfirin]

Hello! Running a game in a world I'm working hard to create from scratch. Fairly high magic, and looking to introduce technology (mostly mechanical for now). Theme/flavor/rp-wise, I know what I want/am working towards. Mechanics-wise, how do you guys introduce it into your worlds? I've read bits and pieces of eberron stuff, which has helped a bit. Curious as to homebrew solutions.

 

[Morrus]

Pathfinder did it fairly well. Paizo released the technology guide and the Iron Gods adventure path. EN Publishing did the SANTIAGO adventure path Player's Guide before that, too, which is free. Even if you're not playing Pathfinder, it may be worth taking a look at those. And, of course, D&D itself has some older examples.

 

[Ilfirin]

Thanks for the reply, Im checking out the Santiago stuff and the Iron Gods stuff now!

edit- So, I looked over all of it, but it's not quite what I was looking for. I'm looking for low tech, like basically when it's first being introduced to the world, and how to handle it. I appreciate any and all suggestions/help though!

 

[Celebrim]

edit- So, I looked over all of it, but it's not quite what I was looking for. I'm looking for low tech, like basically when it's first being introduced to the world, and how to handle it. I appreciate any and all suggestions/help though!

What exactly are you looking for? Can you give some examples of the technology you'd expect to see? In D&D terms, 'technology' almost always means 'guns'. So are you looking for something like hand gonnes, or are you more looking for something like a matchlock?

Keep in mind that almost all new technologies get rapidly refined on an exponential curve of improvement for the first few decades, so anything you introduce in a primitive form won't stay that way for long.

 

[Ilfirin]

I'm looking for mechanical constructs to do tasks, low tech firearms, and clockwork/steam type stuff. things like mechanized lifts and maybe even carts/etc for traveling, and early on probably not much else battle-wise. Basically, stuff that will affect life outside of combat earlier on, but super low-tech. Guns/their upgrades, mech constructs for battle, "universal/wondrous items" from tech instead of magic, would all start coming after that.

I found these:
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/931936
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?114229-Base-Class-The-Engineer-3-5-PEACH

Which are a good start, but not exactly what I wanted. Guess im not 100% sure specifically what I want lol.

 

[Greenfield]

Constructs to do tasks? But not magical?

Even in the real world, machines lack the intelligence to follow any orders that aren't already programmed in, and it's only within the last few years that voice recognition has even approached workability. So if you're talking about anything beyond relatively simple mechanisms, magic gets involved. You might not call it "Magic", but that's what it is.

For 3.5, look at Warforged.

As for how to introduce it, in terms of game/story, I'd begin with Gnomes. Have the things introduced as the product of Gnomish tinkers.

Now steam implies a fuel source, like coal or wood. If you don't want to include coal mines etc, consider having them use windmills to pump water up into towers, as a way to store energy, then water wheels or something similar to explain how they can get torque on demand.

D&D has rules for firearms, though I can't recall exactly which book they're mentioned in. How to introduce them is another matter.

In most games I've played in that used them, most players wanted to take the grand leap from matchlock or wheellock blunderbusses to breach loaders, rifled barrels and automatic weapons with a few dice rolls. And, of course, they're the only people in the world who have them.

I usually avoid that entire subject.

 

[Dandu]

Now steam implies a fuel source, like coal or wood. If you don't want to include coal mines etc, consider having them use windmills to pump water up into towers, as a way to store energy, then water wheels or something similar to explain how they can get torque on demand.

Nuclear plants technically are a form of steam power.

 

[Ilfirin]

As far as those links I posted, I really like a LOT of the inventor class, but more as an NPC class than a PC one. The engineer one has some decent class based stuff, but then I'm not sure it's really what i'm looking for. Currently reading so much of Eberron.

 

[Celebrim]

I'm looking for mechanical constructs to do tasks...

Considering that constructs to do tasks are generally beyond 21st century technology, and yet are simple enough exercises of magical power that anyone capable of casting 'unseen servant' can best the most modern robot technology, I fear that what you are looking for simply may not exist. Mechs for example aren't practical weapon systems now, and arguably never will be. Powered battle armor might come into its own at some point, but steam engines and the like just simply don't have enough energy storage for the weight. Golems are far more potent than any clockpunk robot you'd care to create without magic, and readily available within a 'high magic' setting. Magic is simply better.

low tech firearms

Fire arms of any technology level in D20 are best handled as special cases of Ken Hood's firearms rules. He has the most comprehensive and effective rules for firearms I've seen anywhere.

If you have any questions about leveraging them to handle a particular class of early firearms, let me know and I'll help you out.

and clockwork/steam type stuff.

In general, clockwork automata realistically just doesn't work without liberal application of magic. Even with the best technology, mechanical calculators are huge and only function for short periods without breaking down in some fashion. It's not remotely possible to fit enough calculating power into a machine using gears to simulate any sort of complex behavior - there just won't be enough bytes of memory, and the more you add, the shorter amount of time before it enters a failure mode.

However, an accurate mechanical clock itself is a huge advancement in technology, allowing not only convenience and greater organization, but significant improvements in navigation.

things like mechanized lifts and maybe even carts/etc for traveling, and early on probably not much else battle-wise. Basically, stuff that will affect life outside of combat earlier on, but super low-tech.

Mechanically, much of this is available even in the middle ages and presumably many of the advancements - like the Otis safety elevator - could have been made if these things were in wide enough use that it had become a problem of widespread consideration using only low tech construction and craftsmanship. For example, the medieval and early moderns had elevators, automated trip hammers, saws, mills, grinders and a variety of other machines, powered pumps, and so forth. The big difference is that they relied on water and wind power (or occasionally animals), which greatly limited the amount of available energy and the locations you could make use if it.

It's worth noting that this sort of stuff already exists in default D&D, though it usually shows up and interacts with the PC's in the form of a trap filled tomb rather than a working factory complex. But any society mechanically complex enough to produce the astounding range of amazing mechanical traps seen in D&D, presumably has all the mechanical tools the medieval had and then some.

The big advance in the real world was the steam engine which let you hook up all those things to a small comparatively portable power source. If you have steam engines, you can have pretty much anything up to about 1900s technology - locomotives, steam powered cars, ironclads, automated looms, etc. Most of this you don't really need rules for unless you are doing some sort of economics subgame with the players as merchant industrialists, in which case, rules for technology are the least of your problems.

The first problem is again, magic is just better. Most D&D magic outperforms not only present day technology, but any conceivable near future technology in many regards. Long before technology could overtake it as an independent force, industrialized magic as technology would beat it hands down in all regards. D&D magic can with only a slight amount of repurposing relatively easily make household robots, full stealth chameleon suits, personal flying belts, forcefields, man portable artillery, ray guns, perpetual motion machines, and any number of other things. Cure disease and cure light wounds are light years better medical technology than exists now or at any point in the conceivable future. The main reason we don't do magic as technology to create a D&D that is filled with science fiction or science fantasy tropes is that we don't want to have that outcome and so arbitrarily set extra limitations on the magic when it comes up.

The second problem is that if you base your world on magic, the players aren't experts in how it works and it doesn't have to be completely coherent. But if you introduce basic technology, the players are probably experts in how it works and can make some pretty simple suggestions for improving the technology that in the real world took people 5-10 years to work out. Doing that repeatedly allows the players to accelerate the pace of technological improvement from new generations of technology every few game decades, to new generations of technology every few game weeks. You'll literally risking a 'Connecticut Yankee in King Author's Court' problem. In the real world, the main thing that separated the medieval Hand Gonne from say a Kentucky Flintlock rifle, was lots of trial and error. If you eliminate the trial and error, you've got a problem however you address it. If you say fiat, "No, you aren't allowed to do that.", the player may well feel you are unreasonably constraining player free will. If you on the other hand say, "That's player knowledge and not character knowledge, you need to do research and pass difficult skill checks in order to advance technology", then expect players to easily overcome whatever hurdle you put in front of them via min/maxing.

In my own game, I make the assumption that anything the players have the imagination to attempt, has been tried literally hundreds or thousands of times by NPCs over the course of the world's 5000 year unbroken written history. If players want to invent firearms, they can - though knowledgeable craftsman will advice them that they are largely wasting their time. If they persisted anyway, they'd find that the world contains no stable explosives. The world's chemistry is after all based on 4 elements - earth, fire, air, and water - and not the familiar periodic table. Gunpowder - even if the player's precisely describe the process for making it - simply doesn't work. Alchemy can get you explosives, but none that are stable in the long term and shock resistant. The best available explosives are roughly the equivalent of raw nitroglycerin in stability and gunpowder in terms of blast strength, even after you mix them with binders like chalk or sawdust. Attempting to equip an army with explosives in a world where relatively low level casters can produce magical fire or waves of force and where even a single trooper getting killed and dropping his weapon can set off a chain reaction is like sending an army of troops with suicide belts against a force holding the remote detonators. It's been tried a couple of times in history - once by goblins and a couple of times by mad men - and it always fails spectacularly. If guns worked in this world, they'd already have been invented.

Now of course, I could allow guns into my game if I wanted to. But by my calculations, a 1st level hobgoblin fighter with modern weaponry is about CR 6 and has some relatively nice features that keep him threatening until relatively high level. The problem with technology is that it mostly tends to level the playing field. It's not an accident that most romantic fiction is based off eras when defensive technology considerably outstripped offensive technology, leading to a situation where a single armored warrior could defeat a couple dozen foes with less advanced armor and weapons. The era of firearms - at least the era where both sides have firearms - is an era where offensive might has vastly outstripped defensive technology, leading to a situation where the mightiest and most experienced warrior can be easily killed by a mook. Consider for example the narrative role of the musket in Kurosawa's 'Seven Samurai'.

 

[Celebrim]

In general, I'd say that most D&D games already operate at a level of technology that is equivalent to the 19th century with a few odd gaps - such as the lack of steam engines or firearms. Most D&D players hold assumptions about the past that are the product of movies, and as such wildly underestimate how modern various tropes actually are.

For example, do your sailing ships have a 'crow's nest' where lookouts can spot land? Then your sailing technology is 19th century.

Or, to come at this in a different way, based on the costuming, social order, weapons, technology, and so forth most Disney 'Princess' movies are set in the 19th century and not the 13th.

Or to come at this in a different way, the Highland tartan kilt is 18th or 19th century garb. William Wallace would have never worn one, although he did at one point have a monk's tonsure.

My point is that the middle ages are so remote in the past, most people haven't a clue just how alien the world was and even if they did, don't limit themselves to that world. There is a good possibility that aside from the guns or steam engines, the trope D&D world is already the technologically advanced world you are looking. As such, as a practical matter, paddle wheel steamers, steam engine automobiles, early industrialization and so forth can be introduced without really worrying about rules for them, since the sort of things that they allow for are generally not things that DMs ever worry about anyway. I'd pretty much guarantee they'd have no practical impact on most peoples games.

Guns on the other hand, you'll need rules for, but my suspicion is that they are going to be an NPC only weapon - because a longbow in the hands of a PC is just going to be so much more effective for the PC up until the introduction of repeating weapons circa 1860 or so.