D&D 5E Homebrew: 2 ideas to improve fighter out of combat effectiveness

[FrogReaver]

1. Add special fighter only feats that a fighter can take when he gets his level 6 and level 14 ASI. These feats will do many more things than feats for regular characters. A list of possible feats would need created. Each feat could add nice out of combat benefits as well as a combat benefit.

2. Give fighters a special "archetype overlay" chosen at level 1 that adds special bonuses at certain levels and have their out of combat benefits primarily derive from the overlay. A few example overlay concepts would be "commander of men (charisma and social focused)", "scout (dexterity and exploration focused) ", "advisor (intelligence and social focused)", "crusader (religion focused with a mix of social and exploration benefits), etc. Each overlay would get some useful out of combat abilities that fit the "archetype overlay". Speaking of can someone come up with a better name?

I would love to hear any design ideas about either of these concepts. Criticisms are welcome but we have enough threads arguing over fighters and their out of combat usefulness in general, let's try to avoid that here. In other words, state your opinion on that matter if you must but don't try to discuss / argue / debate others about their opinion on the matter here. There's numerous other threads where you can already do that.

 

[Croesus]

Since I don't believe the fighter is unique in lacking out-of-combat abilities, my idea is to offer every character a "feat" at 1st level. The catch is that they can only choose among custom feats which have no combat abilities, nor any stat bonus. The feats would be designed around a theme, such as Outdoorsman, Sailor, Researcher, Linguist, etc. Each would give the character one to three skill proficiencies, plus one to three special abilities, depending on how useful they are. Essentially, expanded backgrounds.

Note, this "feat" would be in addition to standard racial and background abilities.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

As a two-part plan to bring Fighters in line with other classes:

1. Dissociate skill checks from ability checks for trained skills. If you're trained in something, your bonus is equal to your Proficiency bonus +3. If you're not trained in something, you just get your ability bonus.
2. Remove the Expertise feature from Rogues and Bards, and replace them with extra proficiencies. Combined with the previous point, this allows anyone who is trained in a skill to compete against anyone else who is trained in a skill.

 

[Tony Vargas]

1. Add special fighter only feats that a fighter can take when he gets his level 6 and level 14 ASI. These feats will do many more things than feats for regular characters. A list of possible feats would need created. Each feat could add nice out of combat benefits as well as a combat benefit.

That's essentially "replace bonus ASIs with player-chosen features." It would strongly encourage taking the feature rather than the ASI. Not sure about the idea.

A similar idea is to give the Fighter a more limited list of non-combat bonus feats to choose from at 6th, but make them available even when feats are not otherwise opted into. Of course, that could represent a loss of combat power, too... :shrug:

2. Give fighters a special "archetype overlay" chosen at level 1 that adds special bonuses at certain levels and have their out of combat benefits primarily derive from the overlay. A few example overlay concepts would be "commander of men (charisma and social focused)", "scout (dexterity and exploration focused) ", "advisor (intelligence and social focused)", "crusader (religion focused with a mix of social and exploration benefits), etc. Each overlay would get some useful out of combat abilities that fit the "archetype overlay".

You might consider giving the fighter non-combat benefits that key off their chosen Background. Backgrounds don't much improve as you level, but maybe the fighter could build on his?

Edit: FREX: The BM could roll a CS die to gain a bonus to a check associated with his background.

Speaking of can someone come up with a better name?

'Kit' and 'Theme' have been used for things something like that in prior eds...

 

[Alexemplar]

1. Add special fighter only feats that a fighter can take when he gets his level 6 and level 14 ASI. These feats will do many more things than feats for regular characters. A list of possible feats would need created. Each feat could add nice out of combat benefits as well as a combat benefit.

2. Give fighters a special "archetype overlay" chosen at level 1 that adds special bonuses at certain levels and have their out of combat benefits primarily derive from the overlay. A few example overlay concepts would be "commander of men (charisma and social focused)", "scout (dexterity and exploration focused) ", "advisor (intelligence and social focused)", "crusader (religion focused with a mix of social and exploration benefits), etc. Each overlay would get some useful out of combat abilities that fit the "archetype overlay". Speaking of can someone come up with a better name?

I would love to hear any design ideas about either of these concepts. Criticisms are welcome but we have enough threads arguing over fighters and their out of combat usefulness in general, let's try to avoid that here. In other words, state your opinion on that matter if you must but don't try to discuss / argue / debate others about their opinion on the matter here. There's numerous other threads where you can already do that.

Backgrounds generally do that, but all classes get backgrounds. The difference is that all classes also have a lot of flavor and ribbons tied to their flavors while Fighters just get stuff that makes them better at weapon attacks.

Also, I think Know Your Enemy should be a 1st level feature available to all Fighters. It encourages you to at least have a brief chat with foes as you size them up before a fight. I'd also expand it so that you might get a bonus on social checks with individuals who may have heard of your exploits to balance out the fact that after making sure your Dexterity, Strength, and Constitution are high enough, most fighters don't have much left over for Intelligence, Charisma, or Wisdom.

Also, when actually DM'ing, I'm what many would consider very lenient in letting non-spellcasters attempt "unrealistic" stunts without too many crippling penalties that would render attempting said stunt more trouble than it's worth.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

1. Add special fighter only feats that a fighter can take when he gets his level 6 and level 14 ASI. These feats will do many more things than feats for regular characters. A list of possible feats would need created. Each feat could add nice out of combat benefits as well as a combat benefit.

2. Give fighters a special "archetype overlay" chosen at level 1 that adds special bonuses at certain levels and have their out of combat benefits primarily derive from the overlay. A few example overlay concepts would be "commander of men (charisma and social focused)", "scout (dexterity and exploration focused) ", "advisor (intelligence and social focused)", "crusader (religion focused with a mix of social and exploration benefits), etc. Each overlay would get some useful out of combat abilities that fit the "archetype overlay". Speaking of can someone come up with a better name?

The main problem I see with these approaches is that they are much more complex, and require you to generate a lot of content. Even after you put in all of the work that's required, you're very likely to introduce something that's unbalanced when taken in combination with something else out there.

A secondary problem is that it only addresses the issue for Fighters, specifically. Even if Fighters become as effective as Rogues and Bards in terms of exploration and interaction, that just means the Barbarian gets to be the new iconic skill-less monkey.

 

[bid]

1. Add special fighter only feats that a fighter can take when he gets his level 6 and level 14 ASI. These feats will do many more things than feats for regular characters. A list of possible feats would need created. Each feat could add nice out of combat benefits as well as a combat benefit.

With UA there's enough half-feat... At those levels, you can take any 2 half-feat without the stats increase.

For instance at level 6, you could take medic + theologian. Or actor + empathic. In both cases, no stat increase in Wis, Int or Cha.

 

[Jester David]

Talked about what I'd do before.

First, I'd drop the existing subclasses.
Instead of the complexity resting there, I'd have characters swap out a feature (say Action Surge) for manuevers. So characters choose what type of mechanical fighter they want to be rather than that being the subclass choice.

From there, the subclasses have more flavour. The knight, the cavalier, the gladiator, the brawler, the weapon master, etc. Each provides ribbon abilities as well as roleplaying and exploratory features.
The knight is a noble and knows courtly intrigue and family crests. The gladiator is a showman that puts on performances and knows how to read a crowd. The brawler can hold a drink and knows how to take a dive. The weapon master knows a little blacksmithing.

But that's a big change...

 

[Ancalagon]

I have a *very* simple solution.

A fighter, like most (but not all) classes start with 2 skills... so instead, make that 3. Combine that with a decent background and voila, fighter is useful out of combat.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I have a *very* simple solution.

A fighter, like most (but not all) classes start with 2 skills... so instead, make that 3. Combine that with a decent background and voila, fighter is useful out of combat.

I actually give them 4 skills: They don't have the rogue's capability of Expertise, but they have the same breadth of skill.