Holy Word too powerful?

[smetzger]

So, is this spell too powerful? What do you think?

Holy Word
Evocation [Good, Sonic]
Level: Clr 7, Good 7
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 40 ft.
Area: Nongood creatures in a 40-ft.-radius spread centered on you
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None or Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
Any nongood creature within the area that hears the holy word suffers the following ill effects.

HD Effect
Equal to caster level Deafened
Up to caster level –1 Blinded, deafened
Up to caster level –5 Paralyzed, blinded, deafened
Up to caster level –10 Killed, paralyzed, blinded, deafened
The effects are cumulative and concurrent. No saving throw is allowed against these effects.
Deafened: The creature is deafened for 1d4 rounds.
Blinded: The creature is blinded for 2d4 rounds.
Paralyzed: The creature is paralyzed and helpless for 1d10 minutes.
Killed: Living creatures die. Undead creatures are destroyed.
Furthermore, if you are on your home plane when you cast this spell, nongood extraplanar creatures within the area are instantly banished back to their home planes. Creatures so banished cannot return for at least 24 hours. This effect takes place regardless of whether the creatures hear the holy word. The banishment effect allows a Will save (at a –4 penalty) to negate.
Creatures whose HD exceed your caster level are unaffected by holy word.

 

[hong]

It's great for clearing a room of mooks, that's for sure. Also if a BBEG uses it on PCs who are at least 5 levels lower than he is -- but then a 13th level caster against 8th level PCs is probably going to wipe the floor with them regardless. I think blasphemy is worse.

 

[WizarDru]

It's great for clearing a room of mooks, that's for sure. Also if a BBEG uses it on PCs who are at least 5 levels lower than he is -- but then a 13th level caster against 8th level PCs is probably going to wipe the floor with them regardless. I think blasphemy is worse.

I've seen it used in practice, and hong's got the right of it. Holy Word looks powerful...but it really isn't, at least not more than similar spells of that level. It's great for destroying cannon fodder, but against the big guns, it's not that powerful.

It's a 7th level spell, and is based on the caster's level versus enemy hit dice. Considering you won't be casting it until 13th level, you're already facing some nasty creatures, most of whom will either have a good SR (outsiders) or lots of hit dice. Consider that at 14th level, you face a Nalfeshnee, who is CR 14. He has SR22 and 14 HD. Holy Word won't really affect him until you get to be 15th level...at which point you could throw an 8th level spell at him. At random, how about a Cornugon? CR 16, 15 HD and SR 28. How about a Frost Worm? CR12, 14 HD. Triceratops? CR9, 16HD. Noble Salamander? CR10, 15 HD. Cloud Giant? CR11, 17HD.

Consider that Destruction, Mass Inflict Serious Wounds and Summon Monster VII are also 7th level spells. And Blasphemy, which is far worse, but is more of an NPC spell, really.

 

[Darklone]

Not really the same, but this is about Unholy Blight.

All these alignment spells are somehow funny.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I've found it to abusive in a DM's (eg my) hands. (Much of the party has gone evil. ) If you have a more typical party, replace with blasphemy.)

If a celestial is used as a "boss" encounter, their caster level could be higher than the party level, so watch everyone be dazed without a saving throw. When that happens, the celestial's allies start kicking butt. Now, if the creature can use holy word ever round it's just broken.

More likely it will just mess with summoned monsters, though.

I find this spell ridiculous for a couple of reasons:

Neither NPCs nor PCs are supposed to know what the term "Hit Dice" means. Even if they do they have no way of knowing their opponent's HD. If they're fighting a familiar creature (eg a troll) and it's a lot more powerful than normal, how do they know if it's got class levels or a template?

As a result, the spell is nearly useless, but broken in certain circumstances. It's a very swingy spell, and this is a bad thing.

I've heard suggestions to spread out, something that is difficult to do in the ruins of a recently unsealed temple. PCs should not be afraid of adventuring in enclosed places because of this one spell. (These cramped spaces are a great time to launch a holy word ambush, especially since some celestials can teleport as a supernatural ability.)

 

[UltimaGabe]

Neither NPCs nor PCs are supposed to know what the term "Hit Dice" means. Even if they do they have no way of knowing their opponent's HD. If they're fighting a familiar creature (eg a troll) and it's a lot more powerful than normal, how do they know if it's got class levels or a template?

As a result, the spell is nearly useless, but broken in certain circumstances. It's a very swingy spell, and this is a bad thing.

I don't see what that has to do with anything. PCs don't know about Hit Dice- you're correct about that- but what difference does it make? PCs DO know, however, that if they cast the spell against someone much less powerful than them, they die. If they cast it against someone slightly less powerful than them, it only Blinds and Deafens them. If they cast it on someone more powerful than them, it doesn't do a thing.

When facing a Troll, there's no way for the characters to know whether or not it's "less powerful" than them without trying the spell. That's not an issue with the game mechanics, that's an issue of realism. The spell is quite useful regardless of knowledge.

 

[the Jester]

In my experience, holy word is fine. Less useful, even, than many spells of its level.

 

[WizarDru]

I don't see what that has to do with anything. PCs don't know about Hit Dice- you're correct about that- but what difference does it make? PCs DO know, however, that if they cast the spell against someone much less powerful than them, they die. If they cast it against someone slightly less powerful than them, it only Blinds and Deafens them. If they cast it on someone more powerful than them, it doesn't do a thing.

When facing a Troll, there's no way for the characters to know whether or not it's "less powerful" than them without trying the spell. That's not an issue with the game mechanics, that's an issue of realism. The spell is quite useful regardless of knowledge.

Exactly. And this being 3E, where creatures can be templated, advanced, classed or any combination of the above, that Troll could still be too powerful. He might be a Troll, or he might be a half-fiendish advanced Troll of Legend Brb8.

 

[BryonD]

Exactly. And this being 3E, where creatures can be templated, advanced, classed or any combination of the above, that Troll could still be too powerful. He might be a Troll, or he might be a half-fiendish advanced Troll of Legend Brb8.

Agreed.

It has worked fine in my game.

 

[Scion]

It seems that for clerics once they get some items to grant at least caster level +5 that it will hit the area of 'very bad'. +5 isnt very hard to get either.

It probably wont hurt anyone in your party (for whatever reason) but your foes will almost all either be blind, deaf, and/or paralyzed. Possibly killed, but if they are killed they werent worth useing the spell anyway (unless the character has a really high +caster level adjustment, killing off the same level people as yourself with no save within a huge area of effect is.. bad..)

Very swingy spell, very likely it should at least have a save.