Holy Symbols on objects

[Ao the Overkitty]

Okay. Is there a written rule about whether or not you can engrave/inscribe a holy symbol on an object (Shield/Armor/Body Part) and have it opperate as a holy symbol (for purposes of Turning Undead or a Divine Focus).

I seem to remember reading somewhere about Pelorites bearing shields with the Sun engraved upon them and using them as their Holy Symbol.

I have heard of and seen this practice used before, but now am forced to defend it.

So, is this an actual rule, or is it just a common house rule.

 

[AuraSeer]

It's up to the DM, and IMO there's enough evidence to rule either way.

There doesn't seem to be much game impact to the decision, though. Whether your holy symbol is on your shield or around your neck, you still need a free hand to perform the S component and manipulate the focus. If your hands are occupied with sword and shield, you won't be casting anything unless it's V only.

 

[Ao the Overkitty]

True for Spells, but what about Turning Undead

That is indeed true for spells, but for Turning Undead, you have to brandish your Holy Symbol. I believe the point is that, if your holy symbol is your shield, then you don't need a free hand for your holy symbol.

Take a Paladin, for example. If a paladin has his sword in one hand and his shield in another, then he needs to put one of them down/away before he can pull out his holy symbol to turn. He's not going to be casting spells as much, so it doesn't make as much sense for him to be walking around with one of his hands free (at least, the ones I've dealt with have cast prep spells before battle and that's it).

Also, you've got him either putting down his weapon or putting down his shield in battle. Not exactly the smartest thing to do. Especially if the turn doesn't work.

Of course, this is more of a sense based argument then a rules based, which is why I was looking for actual rules to back up in this discussion between DMs (we each play in each other's games, so we try and keep the house rules to a minimum and the same for each, to avoid confusion).

 

[kengar]

I've run into this same issue and ruled that the character *can* put the symbol on the shield, etc. if they have the item consecrated (basically just Blessed) first. However, while it does work for turning/rebuking, it doesn't work for spells because the cleric can't see the symbol clearly enough on the outside of his/her shield to "focus" upon it during casting.

Just my personal ruling, YMMV.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I think that putting Holy Symbols on shields, breastplates, and weapons is a perfectly legitimate way for paladins to turn undead without dropping a weapon or shield.

Also, it's worth considering that some deities probably have holy symbols that can be substituted for by one of those items. In Piratecat's campaign for instance, the cleric of the god of walls uses a stone shield that is his holy symbol. I can see a paladin whose holy symbol is a particular kind of sword. . . .

 

[kengar]

I think that putting Holy Symbols on shields, breastplates, and weapons is a perfectly legitimate way for paladins to turn undead without dropping a weapon or shield.

Also, it's worth considering that some deities probably have holy symbols that can be substituted for by one of those items. In Piratecat's campaign for instance, the cleric of the god of walls uses a stone shield that is his holy symbol. I can see a paladin whose holy symbol is a particular kind of sword. . . .

I had a Paladin of Torm once who had lost his holy symbol and wanted to turn some skeletons. Fortunately, Torm's symbol was a mailed fist; so my guy just brandished his clenched fist at them and they ran away! The DM did assign a -2 circumstance modifier for my "improvised" symbol, though.

 

[Ao the Overkitty]

Interesting Idea

The DM did assign a -2 circumstance modifier for my "improvised" symbol, though.

Hmm.. that's an interesting idea. I like it.

 

[Ao the Overkitty]

Also, it's worth considering that some deities probably have holy symbols that can be substituted for by one of those items. In Piratecat's campaign for instance, the cleric of the god of walls uses a stone shield that is his holy symbol. I can see a paladin whose holy symbol is a particular kind of sword. . . .

Right. In the other DM's campaign, religion revolves around the Catholic church. The Holy Symbol for Saint Michael (my Paladin's patron) is a great sword. Part of this is next level my Paladin will be starting to turn undead. We haven't had to deal with turning undead as of yet (our Monk/Cleric has been gone when we've done undead adventures and my bard/paladin hasn't hit 3rd level of paladin yet), but it would indeed be interesting to use his sword as his symbol instead of dropping it to pull out his holy symbol.

But hell, I'd be happy if he could somehow get it engraved on his armor or something. It's the dropping of my sword that gets me, really; seem unpractical.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Anyone remember the rules for 0-level PCs from the First Edition "Greyhawk Adventures" hardcover?

Characters could attempt to emulate a class feature of the class they were hoping to become first level in. Their success was randomly determined - they could flub it, they could get it right, or there was a possibility of a "great success" (or something like that) where they performed the action as a 12th level character of the appropriate class.

The example they gave was turning a vampire.

The first level cleric carefully intoned the ritual phrases, called upon the power of his deity, and had absolutely no chance of turning such a powerful undead.

The 0-level character shoved a holy symbol in the vampire's face and yelled "BOO!", and it was so surprised it fled...

-Hyp.

 

[Christian]

The cleric in my current game has her holy symbol painted on her shield; I think that if she wanted to use it as such, I'd allow it. Mostly to encourage the continuation of the associated entertainment value, though; she's a cleric of Rudd in a Greyhawk game.

(I tell you, these new uniforms are a crock!)