Holy Avenger Questions

[Cabral]

I was thinking of creating a Holy Avenger Variant for solo paladins. What do you think?

Holy Avenger
This longsword is a +2 weapon in the hands of any but a Paladin. When wielded by a Paladin, it becomes a +5 longsword that does double damage against evil creatures; triple on a critical hit (Holy damage is not doubled/tripled). It grants the wielder SR 15, a +4 resistance bonus on all saves, and a +4 deflection bonus to AC.
Caster Level: 18th Prerequisites: Craft Wonderous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, [i[holy aura[/i], holy sword, creator must by good. Market Price: 313,115 gp Cost to Create: 156,715 gp + 12,512 XP.

Note: +x weapon enchantments costs are derived from Table 8-10 in the DMG. The market cost was divided by half since the DMG costs assume weapons "do not take up a slot" and already have the double cost factored in. I could have added the enchantment costs in after the costs of the other properties were doubled, but I chose not to.

+2 weapon = 4,000 * 2 = 8,000
Holy Sword = 56,000 * .7 = 39,200
SR 15 = 30,000 *2 * .7 = 42,000
+4 Deflection AC = 32,000 * 2 * .7 = 44,800
+4 Resistance Save = 16,000 *2 * .7 = 22,400
Total = (8,000 + 39,200 + 42,000 + 44,800 + 22,400) * 2 + 315 = 312,800 +315

If it granted Paladins the effects of the holy aura spell is stead of the AC bonus, saves, and SR, the market price would be:

+2 weapon = 4,000 * 2 = 8,000
Holy Sword = 56,000 * 2 * .7 = 78,400
Holy Aura = 240,000 *.7 = 168,000
Total = (8,000 + 78,400 + 168,000) * 2 + 315 = 508,800 +315

In comparison, I calculate the DMG Holy Avenger to be:
+2 Weapon = 4,000 * 2 = 8,000
+7! Weapon = (49,000 - 4000)!! *.7 = 31,500
SR 15 (personal)!!! = 30,000 *2 * .7 = 42,000
dispel magic at will = 30,000 *2 *.7 = 42,000
!+5 weapon + Holy is a +7 enchantment.
!! the +7 enhancement cost - the preexisting +2 enhancement cost.!!! Cost for spell resistance in 5' radius is unkown.
Total = (8000 + 31,500 + 42,000 + 42,000) * 2 + 315 = 247,315

I don't know if my math is wrong or if it's the DMG (maybe it's a D&D "Sacred Cow" thing), or what.

I kind of got sidetracked so: What do you think of the Holy Avenger Variant and what do you think is wrong (if anything) with my math/the DMG's Holy Avenger?

 

[Marshall]

Alright, Step 1- QUIT DOUBLING!!
AFAICT the double the cost of secondary powers doesnt apply to weapons and armor. see Bow of True Arrows and a couple others I cant think of right now

 

[Cabral]

That still puts the DMG Holy Aveneger at:
+2 Weapon = 4,000
+7 Weapon = (49,000 - 4000) *.7 = 31,500
SR 15 (personal)!!! = 30,000 * .7 = 21,000
dispel magic at will = 30,000 *2 *.7 = 21,000
Total = (4000+31,500+21,000+21,000) * 2 + 315 = 155,000 + 315
Which brings it closer to the DMG's listed price of 120,000 + 315 but still doesn't account for the radius effect spell resistance ...

 

[Marshall]

Actually its:

+2 - 2^2*2000=8000gp
+7 - ((7^2*2000)-8000)*.7=63000gp
SR15 5'r - 30000*.7=21000gp
Dispel Magic 5'r(??) - 30000*.7=21000gp
= 113,000gp

Why did you double again?

I'd say the missing 7Kgp comes from just calculating it as a +7 weapon or is tacked on to the SR to give it 5'r. Looks like fudge factor to me.


?? - What the heck is DisMagic 5'r and what is it good for?

 

[Cabral]

I doubled again because I was assuming that cost for a weapon was based on weapons effectively not taking up a slot. You could conceivalby carry several versions of a +10 longsword (Ie, +1 to +5 with the remaining in enchantments) and use whichever is most appropriate to the situation. Now, perhaps it counts as an item that takes up a slot since an attack roll is never (I think!) affected by more than one weapon.

Well that puts my version at:
+2 weapon = 8,000
Holy Sword = 56,000 * .7 = 39,200
SR 15 = 30,000 * .7 = 21,000
+4 Deflection AC = 32,000 * .7 = 22,400
+4 Resistance Save = 16,000 * .7 = 11,200
Total = 101,800 +315
Is that appropriate? Is my alternate less powerful than the baseline Holy Avenger?

(Side note: the second variation would cost 215,200 + 315; which I think to be a bit over priced.
Also the cost for the Holy Sword enchantment maybe off. Since it requires a 14th level Paladin (or a limited wish, wish, or miracle), the caster level is 7th. Now I'm mostly positive that results in 4 [spell level] * 7 [caster level] * 2000 = 56,000 gp. However, I couldn't find where exactly it said that (or was it just the use of caster level in the charts?).

 

[Marshall]

I doubled again because I was assuming that cost for a weapon was based on weapons effectively not taking up a slot.

Forget about slots. All that only applies to CWI.

Well that puts my version at:
+2 weapon = 8,000
Holy Sword = 56,000 * .7 = 39,200
SR 15 = 30,000 * .7 = 21,000
+4 Deflection AC = 32,000 * .7 = 22,400
+4 Resistance Save = 16,000 * .7 = 11,200
Total = 101,800 +315

Is that appropriate? Is my alternate less powerful than the baseline Holy Avenger?

I dont think I'd go for a use-activated Holy Sword spell.
Just the benfits of the spell would add up to
+5 enhancement = 50,000 gp
Permanent MCAE = 3*5*2000 = 30,000 gp
Double Damage to Evil is either a +2 or +3 enhancement or 48K to 78k more.

(Side note: the second variation would cost 215,200 + 315; which I think to be a bit over priced.
Also the cost for the Holy Sword enchantment maybe off. Since it requires a 14th level Paladin (or a limited wish, wish, or miracle), the caster level is 7th. Now I'm mostly positive that results in 4 [spell level] * 7 [caster level] * 2000 = 56,000 gp. However, I couldn't find where exactly it said that (or was it just the use of caster level in the charts?).

Your calculations are right, but this is one of those times that DM fiat would have to step in for game balance.
If I were you I'd take the normal Avenger and drop the 21K we figured covered the dispel effect.(Leaves 99K)
Then add the costs for the +4 AC(22.4K)
and +4 saves(11.2K)
Makes 132,600 gp THATS about right.

 

[Cabral]

Well, I was using Holy Sword because I wanted double damage as opposed to +2d6 holy damage. I don't think that would worth more than a +2 enhancement.

While 2d8+2*str+10 vrs evil may result in more damage on average, and particularly in certain cases (high strength, feats that add to damage) than 1d8+str+2d6+5, it is dependant on the user's strength and is normal damage (as opposed to holy damage). While the +5's in both cases remove damage reduction/+x, the holy damage, unless I am mistaken, is energy damage and thus ignores damage reduction /-. However, this is only a issue against damage reduction greater than 5+1d8+wielder's strength.

There is the additional boon that certain creatures can't heal holy damage. While such creatures do not comprise a large percentage of creatures in general, they constitute a greater chunk of evil creatures, which are the only creatures that are affected by the extra damage.

Lastly when compared to the cost of a use activated Holy Sword spell, the cost of a +7 weapon seems a bit much, let alone a +8 weapon ...