Holy and Unholy Damage

[Falling Icicle]

One thing I noticed in the new playtest packet is that some spells inflict holy or unholy damage, or protect against them (Battle Psalm, Consecrate, Crusader Strike, Protection from Evil, and Righteous Brand). While I love how they have these spells target creature types (such as fiends and undead) instead of alignments, I'm not so sure I like holy and unholy as damage types.

I'd prefer radiant and necrotic damage fill those roles instead. I think those damage types make more sense as forces that spells draw upon to inflict damage. Light burns things, and is both the literal and metaphorical bane of creatures of darkness. Makes perfect sense as a damage type. Likewise, necrotic damage hurts things by draining their soul, corroding them, causing decay, death, etc. Got it. But "holy" damage? What's that? How does that hurt people? I smite thee with... goodness? But what exactly is that and how does it inflict injury?

Thoughts?

[And please, let's not turn this into a debate about Alignments. Thank you.]

 

[Ahnehnois]

Holy and unholy are more vague, which I think is appropriate in this context. They can be, but are not necessarily described in terms of light and dark, or light and death.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Holy and unholy are more vague, which I think is appropriate in this context. They can be, but are not necessarily described in terms of light and dark, or light and death.

We already have damage types for light and death, though, and they're called "radiant" and "necrotic", respectively.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

By choosing holy/unholy over radiant/necrotic they are saying that there are forces of good and evil that have a real impact on the world, indeed, on the physics of the world. Whilst radiant light was just super-powerful light, holy damage is connected with goodness itself, whether it be through the power of a good god, the good planes or just the inherent goodness in the world.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I loved the idea of an evil cleric of bane throwing radiant damage. However I now want one that throws holy damage ...

 

[Ahnehnois]

We already have damage types for light and death, though, and they're called "radiant" and "necrotic", respectively.

We don't have to.

Even if we do, I would not say that most of the spells quoted have a particularly strong association with those concepts; protection from evil and its ilk should be broad.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

Holy and Unholy seem right to me, because I think of them as being based in Positive and Negative Energy. With that, Necrotic could work well for Negative Energy, but Radiant isn't right.

 

[The Shadow]

Seems like radiant and necrotic damage still exist. Radiant Lance and Sunburst do radiant damage; and Ray of Enfeeblement, Vampiric Touch, and the Inflict spells do necrotic. Holy and unholy must be something eluse.

I do think 'holy' gets across something that 'radiant' doesn't. I don't see any particular reason why a skeleton or a demon would be bothered by bright, searing light more than anything else. But holiness? That's another matter.

If it helps, think of 'holy' and 'unholy' as two distinct flavors of 'divine'. They represent the raw, unfiltered power of The Gods.

EDIT: I do find it odd that Righteous Brand lets you choose between holy and unholy damage. I would think it's one type per customer.

 

[Sunseeker]

I've disliked "holy" and "unholy" as it draws us into the rather muddy waters of a dualistic monotheistic religious system, ie: real life and Christianity.

Those things don't really exist in D&D, so I feel that "radiant" and "necrotic" fill the voids better because they don't harken to a particular religious ideology.

"Holy" presupposes "good" and "unholy" presupposes evil, but traditionally in many societies, sun gods were considered highly wrathful and destructive, giving rise to hot summers, wilting crops, and drying up sources of water. Likewise, gods of death were not always framed as murderous monsters and the powers of death were as natural as the powers of life.

"holy" and "unholy" is more like alignment. It's all about perception. Radiant and necrotic are actual power sources. Evil beings can perceive themselves to be holy, holy beings can wield necrotic energy.

 

[JamesonCourage]

But "holy" damage? What's that? How does that hurt people? I smite thee with... goodness? But what exactly is that and how does it inflict injury?

It's the power of Good. You know, Holy Water, not Radiant Water. It burns Evil things, because it's Good.

[And please, let's not turn this into a debate about Alignments. Thank you.]

I can't comment more, then. All I can say is that it involves the alignments, and I like that. If anyone wants to disagree with me, I'll understand, but refrain from arguing because of this request. As always, play what you like