Holding breath

[Scharlata]

Hi!

I don't get it. What's the official 3.5 rule for holding one' breath.

Is it:
* Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score.
or
* Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to [once] her Constitution score.

My PHB says "once" according to the Swim skill, another PHB says "twice" according to the Swim sill too, one SRD http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/skillsAll.html#swim says "once" (see Swim), another SRD http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/swim.htm says "twice" (see Swim); my DMG says "twice" (Drowning), my MM is silent on that issue.

Was there an official erratum, was the Swim sill updated by the FAQ, what did I miss?

Please don't let me suffer due to my ignorance and please apologize if that question has been asked more than once.

Kind regards

 

[Lopke_Quasath]

From SRD

If you are underwater, either because you failed a Swim check or because you are swimming underwater intentionally, you must hold your breath. You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to twice your Constitution score, but only if you do nothing other than take move actions or free actions. If you take a standard action or a full-round action (such as making an attack), the remainder of the duration for which you can hold your breath is reduced by 1 round. (Effectively, a character in combat can hold his or her breath only half as long as normal.) After that period of time, you must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round to continue holding your breath. Each round, the DC for that check increases by 1. If you fail the Constitution check, you begin to drown.

Emphasis mine.
That should answer your question.

Cheers

 

[Infiniti2000]

my DMG says "twice" (Drowning)

There's an apparent descrepancy because I see no errata or FAQ update to change the rules, but I'm sure I missed it somewhere. However, the DMG takes precedence on the rules of drowning (vs. the Swim skill), so the 'twice' would be the correct value.

 

[Infiniti2000]

That should answer your question.

Actually, it doesn't answer his question since he linked to that. The only official SRD contradicts that, which makes your quote wrong. The correct quote for the Swim skill follows, with my emphasis:

If you are underwater, either because you failed a Swim check or because you are swimming underwater intentionally, you must hold your breath. You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution score, but only if you do nothing other than take move actions or free actions. If you take a standard action or a full-round action (such as making an attack), the remainder of the duration for which you can hold your breath is reduced by 1 round. (Effectively, a character in combat can hold his or her breath only half as long as normal.) After that period of time, you must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round to continue holding your breath. Each round, the DC for that check increases by 1. If you fail the Constitution check, you begin to drown.

 

[Scharlata]

There's an apparent descrepancy because I see no errata or FAQ update to change the rules, but I'm sure I missed it somewhere. However, the DMG takes precedence on the rules of drowning (vs. the Swim skill), so the 'twice' would be the correct value.

Aha! There IS a discrepancy and there ISN'T an erratum.
OK! I'm not slipping any update. .

The Player's Handbook, for example, gives all the rules for playing the game, for playing PC races, and for using base class descriptions. If you find something on one of those topics from the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide or the Monster Manual that disagrees with the Player's Handbook, you should assume the Player's Handbook is the primary source. The DUNGEON MASTER's Guide is the primary source for topics such as magic item descriptions, special material construction rules, and so on. The Monster Manual is the primary source for monster descriptions, templates, and supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities.

Emphasis mine.

So, the official canon suggests that I'd follow the rules given in the Player's Handbook.
But what if two versions of the Player's Handbook (print) exist?

Which one to follow. The more recent printing?

Kind regards and thanx.

 

[irdeggman]

It is not an inconsistency the difference is in the descriptions of what you can do at the same time.

You can hold your breath for twice your Con score if you do nothing except for move and free actions.

If you take a standard or full round action the duration is reduced by 1 round, effectively halving it.

If you are underwater, either because you failed a Swim check or because you are swimming underwater intentionally, you must hold your breath. You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to twice your Constitution score, but only if you do nothing other than take move actions or free actions. If you take a standard action or a full-round action (such as making an attack), the remainder of the duration for which you can hold your breath is reduced by 1 round. (Effectively, a character in combat can hold his or her breath only half as long as normal.) After that period of time, you must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round to continue holding your breath. Each round, the DC for that check increases by 1. If you fail the Constitution check, you begin to drown

 

[Scharlata]

It is not an inconsistency the difference is in the descriptions of what you can do at the same time.

That's not the point.

The point is this text from the Swim skill:

You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to twice your Constitution score...
and
You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to [...] your Constitution score...

depending which printing of the Player's Handbook or which SRD you quote.

This inconsistency is adressed even by other game companies, as I was about to uncover.

Look here: http://www.rpgnow.com/product_reviews_info.php?products_id=5542&reviews_id=10329&

Misfit Studios: Publisher Reply: [...] and the instance of holding breath has been changed to "50% longer than normal"; there is a discrepancy between how long the SRD says one can hold one's breath under the Swim skill (Con x 1) and in the drowning description (Con x 2.) I've always gone with Con x 1 because this is used in both the Swim skill AND drowning rules for d20 Modern, but the revision will cover either direction the GM decides to use. Thanks for the review!

Kind regards

 

[Infiniti2000]

Which one to follow. The more recent printing?

Kind regards and thanx.

I would follow the primary source on Drowning, not on the Swim skill. The rules for drowning are in the DMG, and based on the following, with my emphasis: "The DUNGEON MASTER's Guide is the primary source for topics such as magic item descriptions, special material construction rules, and so on." Surely, you wouldn't think they need to list every conceivable topic? Also, you don't think that the Swim skill provides precedence on drowning vs. the actual rules on Drowning, do you?

 

[Scharlata]

[...]Also, you don't think that the Swim skill provides precedence on drowning vs. the actual rules on Drowning, do you?

Will save pending...

 

[Infiniti2000]

Will save pending...

I didn't mean that sarcastically or snarkily or anything either.