Hold "person"?

[jaded]

Hey,

Hoping someone here can clear this up for me...

Do the "Person" spells (Hold, Charm, etc..) work on Monstrous Humanoids?

If they are why the semantic difference? why not list them as Humanoid (monstrous)? of course if they aren't its moot.

Issue caused during the last session with these spells being used on a minotaur. He passed the saves but im hoping to sort this out for the future

Thanks in advance

.. jaded
----
"Well obviously the Balor was misinformed!"

 

[Destil]

I think it's a hold-over from the 2E and eariler wording of the spell. That's (Monstrous Humanoids) exactily what is meant.

However, if memory serves Minotuars are large, and thus immune to the spell reguardless.

 

[jaded]

The minotaur in question is medium size (savage species).

Substitute medusa though... I'm having a hard time deciding if the type should really be treated as a humaoid subtype, at least for these spells.

My gut feeling is no but i'd like some rules back up 'cause this is going to cause one of those loooong group debates

.. jaded
----
"Well obviously the Balor was misinformed!"

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Hold Person works on humanoids. MM page 4 and page 13 shows that humanoids and monstrous humanoids are differant creature types, so Hold Person will not work on your minotaur. You need Hold Monster for him.

 

[Staffan]

"Monstrous Humanoid" is as different from "Humanoid" as "Natural Armor" is different from "Armor".

 

[Murrdox]

To my knowledge, Hold Person only works on humanoids that are normally player classes. Namely:

Humans
Elves
Half-Elves
Half-Orcs
Dwarves
Gnomes
Halflings

And all the sub-races associated with them (unless the rules for the race specify that they're immune). Just about everything else aside from these races is classified as an "outsider" or "monstrous humanoid" or something similar.

It's kinda the same way that "Animal Friendship" doesn't work on Magical Beasts... such as blink dogs and giant eagles. You would THINK it might... but it doesn't.

 

[isoChron]

Even Aasimar are not affected by Hold Person. So a medusa won't be, too.
Hold Person works on:
humans, elves, halflings, gnomes, dwarfs, goblins, bugbears, gnolls, hobgoblins, kobolds, lizardfolk, locatah, merfolk, orc, sahuagin, troglodyte.
It will not work on:
Centaurs, grimlocks, hags, harpies, kuo-toa, medusa, minotaur or yuan-ti (along with all other "monsters").
Humanoids only from MM1. There may be more out there ... MM2 or Monsters of Faerun or whatever.

BYE

 

[Staffan]

To my knowledge, Hold Person only works on humanoids that are normally player classes.

No, it affects any humanoid that's Medium or smaller. In addition to normal PC races, that would include orcs, goblins, hob-goblins, bugbears, kobolds, and quite a few other critters (somewhat depending on setting).
There's a difference between "Monstrous Humanoid" and "Humanoid", but the Humanoid creature type isn't limited to the regular PC races.

 

[Murrdox]

Well, I'll be damned. I guess we've been doing the rules for "Hold Person" wrong all this time. I suppose its fortunate that no one in our group ever really considers goblins and such to be worthy of expending a "Hold Person" spell.

We always assumed that because such monsters have the "Goblinoid" (in the case of Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Bugbears) or "Reptillian" (in the case of Kobolds) description, this excluded them from the effects of "Hold Person".

 

[Staffan]

That's just a subtype, just like elves are written as "Humanoid (elf)", or dwarves are written as "Humanoid (dwarf)". It's relevant because you can't take humanoid as a favored enemy, you must choose a specific humanoid subtype (and the same goes for Bane weapons).