D&D 5E Hit Dice and How To Get More From Them

[doctorbadwolf]

So, IMO, 4e’s Healing Surge was just a better mechanic, and I think reworking HD and healing to be more like Healing Surges would improve the game.

Specifically, HS were spent when you got healed via most magic, and were a static number, and environmental effects and the like could cost you Healing Surges.

I’d love to replace some of the effects that give a level of exhaustion with a HD cost, have certain spells and hazards cost HD, and have most magical healing cost HD.
So, the question is, how does the math work out?

Has anyone played around with this before?

and please, please, don’t derail the thread with discussion of editions, how the goals of the thread are “badwrongfun”, or whatever else occurs to you that has nothing to do with the premise of the thread....

 

[Flamestrike]

I hear you. There is a lot of design space with HD that arent being used.

I personally play Short rests as a few minutes breather, but for those that dont you could definately get away with a shorter short rest (Recover?) that lets you spend a few HD as an Action.

How about this:

New Action:

Recover: As an action you steel your resolve and catch your breath. When you take this action, you may choose to expend and roll a number of un-expended Hit Dice not exceeding your Con modifier (or 1, whichever is higher) and heal the amount of Hit Points rolled on the dice. If you are required to make a saving throw against an ongoing effect during (or at the end of) your turn, you make it with advantage.

 

[TheSword]

Adventures in middle earth using HD as a resource beyond healing. For instance an elf with a specific feat can spend a HD to make an arrow shot into a critical hit. It’s a powerful ability but I would like to see HD as a resource for some other class abilities...

 

[Charlaquin]

I think healing surges were one of the best pieces of 4e design, and hit dice are a prime example of how superficial 4e’s influences on 5e are. They have the aesthetics of healing surges, but none of their actual design function. I would love to see hit dice hacked to work more like healing surges, but I think it would require a pretty significant overhaul.

I think the first thing you’d want to do is make all healing surges recover on a long rest, instead of just half. I think the biggest challenge would be overhauling all the healing spells in the game to make them work within the hit dice mechanic. And yeah, change some effects to cost hit dice and some to recover hit dice.

 

[Flamestrike]

I think healing surges were one of the best pieces of 4e design, and hit dice are a prime example of how superficial 4e’s influences on 5e are. They have the aesthetics of healing surges, but none of their actual design function. I would love to see hit dice hacked to work more like healing surges, but I think it would require a pretty significant overhaul.

Harsh criticism. There are rules for them in the DMG.

Additionally the 5 minute short rest (also found in the DMG) is a post battle healing surge in all but name.

 

[Charlaquin]

Harsh criticism. There are rules for them in the DMG.

...For healing surges? You got a page number?

Additionally the 5 minute short rest (also found in the DMG) is a post battle healing surge in all but name.

The ability to spend hit dice between each encounter would not make them fill the design role of healing surges, not even close. Healing surges were more than just a between-encounter HP fill-up, they were a subtly brilliant pacing tool. Again, to make hit dice fill that role, at the bare minimum you would need to overhaul every (or nearly every; a few exceptions would probably be fine) healing spell in the game to cost the target one or more hit dice. That was a vital part of the function of healing surges.

 

[Flamestrike]

...For healing surges? You got a page number?

p266:

As an action, a character can use a healing surge and spend up to half his or her Hit Dice. For each Hit Die spent in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character's Constitution modifier. The character regains hit points equal to the total. The player can decide to spend an additional Hit Die after each roll.​

​

A character who uses a healing surge can't do so again until he or she finishes a short or long rest.​

​

Under this optional rule, a character regains all spent Hit Dice at the end of a long rest. With a short rest, a character regains Hit Dice equal to his or her level divided by four (minimum of one die).​

​

Combine that rule, with the 5 minute Short rest, and you're pretty much there.

 

[BrokenTwin]

@Flamestrike The name's the same, but the purpose and function are not.

@doctorbadwolf There's a number of things you'd need to do to reformat the 5e Hit Die mechanic into something resembling the 4e Healing Surge mechanic. My personal thoughts on it are as follows:
For one, I don't think I would keep it a static number. Having your stamina reserves grow as you get more powerful seems like a great pacing mechanic (and keeping with genre). Hell, I'd even argue it would be a great way to reduce hit point bloat, too. Plus, by pacing out the acquisition, it helps prevent additional front-loading. My rough (and completely untested) system that I threw together during the 4E thread works something like this:

You gain your standard Hit Die per class levels, but also gain an additional pool of d6 Hit Die equal to your Con modifier (min 0). In addition, you gain an additional HD of the appropriate type whenever you would gain an attribute/feat increase. You no longer add your Con bonus to hit points. Reformatting healing spells is obviously going to take longer to do, so I've just done the basic two here:

Cure Wounds: Target creature you touch regains your spellcasting modifier in Hit Points and may spend up to 1 HD to recover additional Hit Points.
Higher Levels: The target may spend an additional Hit Die healing per spell slot level. Bonus healing increases by your spellcasting modifier per spell slot level.

Healing Word: Target creature within range may spend up to 1 HD to recover hit points.
Higher Levels: The target may spend an additional Hit Die healing per spell slot level.


Potion of Healing: 1HD+2 | 2HD+4 | 4HD+8 | 5HD+20

Class-feature wise, the only one I think I'd really want to change offhand is the Barbarian: Path of the Berserker's Frenzy ability. Instead of a level of exhaustion, it costs 1 HD. If you don't have any HD remaining, you take a level of exhaustion. Class-based healing I'm mostly fine with leaving as is, although that's definitely something that would have to be looked at on a case by case basis. The idea (for me) isn't to stop healing dead in the water once HD are gone, but just making the most potent/reliable sources limited in a way that doesn't feel artificial.

 

[Flamestrike]

@Flamestrike The name's the same, but the purpose and function are not.

How so?

The purpose and function of Healing surges in 4 and 5E is to grant a mechanism of in combat self healing is it not?

 

[BrokenTwin]

How so?

The purpose and function of Healing surges in 4 and 5E is to grant a mechanism of in combat self healing is it not?

You're putting the cart before the horse here. The primary purpose of Healing Surges in 4E was to limit the amount of healing you could receive over the course of an adventuring day. Spells and abilities used Healing Surges to facilitate this, not as a way to grant additional healing. Once your Healing Surges were spent, the vast majority of healing (magical or otherwise) flat out wouldn't work on you.