High Strength Creatures: Melee Knockback Rules?

[shadowlight]

In D&D there aren't any rules for modelling knock-back when a very high strength creature hits a PC. (ex: a werebear punches a goblin: that Str:28 should probably send it flying!)

Has anyone seen any rules for this effect?

Thanks!

 

[James McMurray]

The knockdown feat (Sword and Fist, and Maybe Complete Warrior). Also the monster feat Awesome blow (3.5 MM).

 

[shadowlight]

The knockdown feat (Sword and Fist, and Maybe Complete Warrior). Also the monster feat Awesome blow (3.5 MM).

I have S&F, but not 3.5MM. Can you remind me about Knockdown and tell me about Awesome Blow?

So would you give those feats to all creatures over a certain strength level?

 

[James McMurray]

Knockdown gives a free trip attempt if you deal a certain amount of damage to a foe (10 point IIRC).

Awesome blow is in the 3.5 SRD:

AWESOME BLOW [GENERAL, FIGHTER]

Prerequisites: Str 25, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, size Large or larger.

Benefit: As a standard action, the creature may choose to subtract 4 from its melee attack roll and deliver an awesome blow. If the creature hits a corporeal opponent smaller than itself with an awesome blow, its opponent must succeed on a Reflex save (DC = damage dealt) or be knocked flying 10 feet in a direction of the attacking creature’s choice and fall prone. The attacking creature can only push the opponent in a straight line, and the opponent can’t move closer to the attacking creature than the square it started in. If an obstacle prevents the completion of the opponent’s move, the opponent and the obstacle each take 1d6 points of damage, and the opponent stops in the space adjacent to the obstacle.

 

[RangerWickett]

I wrote up some rules that were in Four-Color to Fantasy, for the superhero-esque knockback effect. I don't recall them offhand, and I'm not at my own computer, but if I were to rewrite them now, I'd probably have them work something like this:

Knockback: A creature can choose to sacrifice its Strength bonus to damage for a round, and instead use the extra force to knock back foes. Whenever the creature hits, the struck creature must succeed a Fortitude save (DC 10 + attacker's Strength modifier) or be knocked back a number of feet equal to the attacking creature's Strength bonus. Adjust the DC by +4 or -4 for each size category the attacking creature is larger or smaller than Medium. The defending creature gets +4 or -4 to its check for each size category it is larger or smaller than Medium.

This knockback occurs immediately, so that additional attacks cannot be used against the creature if it is not still within reach.

 

[shadowlight]

Knockdown gives a free trip attempt if you deal a certain amount of damage to a foe (10 point IIRC).

Awesome blow is in the 3.5 SRD:

Thanks!

That really helps! Now to figure out a way to incorporate it in all of my strong monsters (or strong PCs for that matter) without making them take a feat... maybe I'll come up with a weaker version of awesome blow that would apply to everyone of strength 20 or higher...

 

[shadowlight]

I wrote up some rules that were in Four-Color to Fantasy, for the superhero-esque knockback effect. I don't recall them offhand, and I'm not at my own computer, but if I were to rewrite them now, I'd probably have them work something like this:

Knockback: A creature can choose to sacrifice its Strength bonus to damage for a round, and instead use the extra force to knock back foes. Whenever the creature hits, the struck creature must succeed a Fortitude save (DC 10 + attacker's Strength modifier) or be knocked back a number of feet equal to the attacking creature's Strength bonus. Adjust the DC by +4 or -4 for each size category the attacking creature is larger or smaller than Medium. The defending creature gets +4 or -4 to its check for each size category it is larger or smaller than Medium.

This knockback occurs immediately, so that additional attacks cannot be used against the creature if it is not still within reach.

Ooooooo.... nice!

I really like this as a default... only characters/monsters with a strength of 20 or higher (+5 bonus) would knock someone back a full square.

How about using a Reflex save (rather than Fort) for the knockback and then another Reflex save to avoid being knocked prone?

 

[jgsugden]

A few notes on Awesome Blow usage:

It can not be used as part of a full attack. It can not be used during the single attack granted by a spring attack or flyby attack (although many DMs house rule this issue). It can not be used as part of a charge. It may not be used during an attack of opportunity. It requires its own separate standard action. It obviously can not be used in conjunction with improved grab.

Many people instantly think that this means that the feat is useless except during a surprise round. This is not true.

A prerequisite for AB is PA. You often do not lose that much average damage when you go from a full attack to a single attack if you factor in optimal use of PA. As DM, consider combining the two, especially when AB creates a large advantage.

The effects of moving a PC up to 10' can be huge. For instance, a bridge guardian (huge earth elemental) can use it to send a PC flying off the bridge. Giving up the second attack may seem inefficient, but if that PC then falls 200', the falling damage will make up for the lost attack.

The creature ends up prone at the end of the attack. Creatures with long reach may very well still have their target in reach when that target stands up (especially considering the attacker still has a move action to put themself in the optimal position). As a result, they may get an extra AoO on that target which will compensate them for the lost attack they sacrificed when making a standard attack instead of a full attack.

AB can be used to deal an extra 2d6 damage by knocking one PC into his ally. I had the opportunity (though I passed it up in favor of a different tactic) to use AB to kill the fighter (from damage) and send him flying into the spellcaster that was at 3 hit points.

The direction of movement is up to the attacker. This can be used to knock the target towards the attacker. If the creature has an ability that is triggereed by contact with the body of the attacker, he may be able to trigger it twice: once with the attack and once by making the victim crash into the attacker. Also note that if the attacker is three sizes larger than the victim, it can knock that victim inside of the area occupid by the attacker. This has all sorts of uses.

Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller: Any creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than it is.
A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is.

 

[RangerWickett]

Revision.
Knockback: A creature can choose to sacrifice its Strength bonus to damage for a round, and instead use the extra force to knock back foes. Whenever the creature hits, the struck creature must succeed a Fortitude save (DC 10 + attacker's Strength modifier) or be knocked back a number of feet equal to the attacking creature's Strength bonus. Adjust the DC by +4 or -4 for each size category the attacking creature is larger or smaller than Medium. The defending creature gets +4 or -4 to its check for each size category it is larger or smaller than Medium.

This knockback occurs immediately, so that additional attacks cannot be used against the creature if it is not still within reach. If the creature that is knocked back impacts a surface or another creature, both take damage equal to the attacker's strength bonus. At the end of the knockback, the defender must succeed a Balance check (DC 10 + attacker's Strength modifier) or fall prone.

By the way, I use a Fort save instead of Reflex because that's how winds work.

 

[Silveras]

The direction of movement is up to the attacker. This can be used to knock the target towards the attacker.

Uhm... no.

The attacking creature can only push the opponent in a straight line, and the opponent can’t move closer to the attacking creature than the square it started in.