'High level' horses?

[RangerWickett]

I want to design some encounters for high level military combat, and I want people to be able to ride mounts without them being a liability. I also don't want everyone to be riding, like, wyverns, or have to be paladins or rangers. Anyone care to suggest some rules for designing stronger horses, how to make them balanced, and price them appropriately, while maintaining believability.

I'd prefer if PCs don't have to 'trade up' from normal warhorses to, like, dire warhorses, to legendary warhorses, to 1337 warhorses. I'm mostly looking for a way to give warhorses levels, and a mechanic that explains it logically. Perhaps it takes a while to train a high-level horse, and you cannot train a warhorse to have more hit dice than you have ranks in Handle Animal? Maybe it would require a special feat to be such a bad-ass animal trainer?

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Awaken them and given them levels in fighter or barbarian. Awakened barbarian horse?

 

[Celebrim]

Shadowfax anyone?

It's your world. You are perfectly free to assume that there is a race of awakened/celestial/intelligent horses living on it - the still living decendents of some god or greater spirit in horse form. (Shadowfax's forebearer was said to have been able to produce human speach, so you can take that as far as you want to with good precedent.) Dieties are often highly fecund beings, and crossbreeding with a mare or a stallion wouldn't be out of the question for alot of them. Perhaps this race of awakened horses can take levels in PC classes.

I wouldn't have a problem with allowing a horse (or a dog) to take levels in animal or even a special 'horse' class if they've survived battles. It's no less realistic than humans gaining HD when they take levels in fighter or wizard. Treat a favored horse as a retainer if you like - it certainly fits with fantasy literature of every sort from cowboy movies to high fantasy.

 

[Dog Moon]

I think WotC put out a feat on their site like 'Animal Companion' or some such, essentially allowing anyone to have an animal companion. Use that feat except limit it to horses.

 

[Kaodi]

If you are open to story based solutions, what if there is a sect of bad-ass animal training war priests who infuse suitable animals with a spark of divine power that allows them to accrue hit dice past their usual maximum? Or maybe, these bad-ass priests function as the sort of special requirement for a mount prestige class that allows them to gain additional bonuses or abilities as they advance in level? Maybe these priests do need a special feat, say: Inspired Husbandry (6 ranks in handle animal, War domain, ability to cast 4th level divine spells). The catch is that you have to provide the mount to be imbued, and the price is not in gold, but in service or favour.

Righteous Steed Prestige Class

Requirements: Animal Type, War Training, Maximum Hit Dice, Elite Specimen

Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 2 + Int/Level
BAB: As Fighter
Good Saves: Fort, Ref, Will
Level:
1 - grants +4 bonus on ride checks to stay in saddle
2 - +1 natural armour
3 - +2 str
4 - dodge
5 - +2 dex
6 - +1 natural armour
7 - +2 con
8 - mobility
9 - +2 str
10 - +1 natural armour, damage reduction 5/magic

So, a heavy warhorse righteous steed 10 using the elite array might look like...
Str 27 Dex 12 Con 22 Int 2 Wis 14 Cha 9
Atk +21 melee (hoof, 1d6+8), AC 17, DR 5/magic, 14 HD (154 HP)
Feats: Endurance, Run, Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Awesome Blow

 

[Cheiromancer]

It could just be a tempermental breed of horse. Vicious, ornery critters. You need to have a minimum number of ranks of handle animal just to ride the things. But they are as tough as blazes.

Barbarian levels would work well, I think, for normal "wild horses." Perhaps "dwarven ponies" could eventually have levels of dwarven defender?

Dunno how you would price them, though. Probably should be some multiple of paying a hireling's salary. A barbarian 5 horse should cost as much as the annual salary of a 5th level character. Perhaps more.

 

[smootrk]

One method I have used was modifying the die used for HD based on quality of the horse.

Nag = d6 HD
Average = d8 HD
Superior = d6+2 per HD
Thoroughbred (best) = d4+4 per HD

Additionally, I generally allow mounts to gain experience at the rate of 1/2 of what the rider earns, but only when the mount is integral to a specific encounter. Rationale: the mount is learning, but is being guided by the character. When XP justifies, I would allow the mount to advance or take an appropriate level... For instance Horses specifically trained for war, I would allow actual fighter levels, even though technically the animal is not awakened. Riding horses would just advance with 'animal' levels.

I use the same methodology on any bought critters/pets that do not fit with animal companion or familiar rules, as those use their own rules. I even allow animal companions/paladin mounts to sometimes advance as well, but I wing it a little to make sure they don't get overly powerful too fast (but they are generally ahead of regular trained/bought creatures).

An XP based system works well for this, as the players are more apt to use their mounts more to ensure the mounts get XP and advance, although you might simply hand-wave an advancement scheme to keep the critters proportional to the characters who are training/using them.

 

[ChimericDream]

Righteous Steed Prestige Class

Requirements: Animal Type, War Training, Maximum Hit Dice, Elite Specimen

Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 2 + Int/Level
BAB: As Fighter
Good Saves: Fort, Ref, Will
Level:
1 - grants +4 bonus on ride checks to stay in saddle
2 - +1 natural armour
3 - +2 str
4 - dodge
5 - +2 dex
6 - +1 natural armour
7 - +2 con
8 - mobility
9 - +2 str
10 - +1 natural armour, damage reduction 5/magic

So, a heavy warhorse righteous steed 10 using the elite array might look like...
Str 27 Dex 12 Con 22 Int 2 Wis 14 Cha 9
Atk +21 melee (hoof, 1d6+8), AC 17, DR 5/magic, 14 HD (154 HP)
Feats: Endurance, Run, Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Awesome Blow

I like this idea quite a bit. Consider it yoinked.

 

[BRP2]

I always thought it would be neat if there was a feat or something that allowed a mount to use the rider's reflex save against spells and ect.

 

[monboesen]

From the top of my head.

1) there is some sort of magebred template in the Eberron sourcebook that can be applied to make them tougher.

2) isn't there also a warbeast kind of template in one of the monster books? (not one I own, just going by memory here)

3) Monte Cooks arcana unearthed has a "superhorse" in the monster section (blatantly stolen from Stephen Donaldsons series on Thomas Covenant)

4) Couldn't you just apply more HD as needed. Making tougher, better trained horses.

5) A heavy warhorse with more than average HP and good barding is actually quite buff (often more dangerous than its rider)




PS. I guess this post relates to your General Forum Post on armies and spellcasters. I'm still curious, what side are your players on. The defenders or the attackers