High Fantasy verses High Magic

[Glade Riven]

I've noticed that we roleplayers here on the forums often equate High Fantasy with High Magic. But the pattern of how high fantasy works, especially as established by Tolkien (as Tolkien pretty much defines what modern High Fantasy is) works contrary to that.

High Fantasy fiction is largely a low magic setting, with the exception of the Big Bad Evil and the occassional artifact that is stumbled acrossed (although there is the occassionally ascended hero). Low Fantasy (a.k.a pulp fantasy) throws magic about willy nilly (possibly involving a spell called "dragon slave").

Early 2e, I'd probably call Forgotten Realms high fantasy. At this point (in fact, during 3e/3.5), I'd say that Forgotten Realms has been stuffed with enough magic and pulp that I wouldn't call it "high fantasy" any more - probably more mid-fantasy for 3.5 and into the fondu pot with 4e. Wheel of Time shifted from being high fantasy in the beginning and is now apocalyptic liturature (where things get weird, and it is a different style of liturature).

With that, I can see the appeal of e6 in maintaining a more traditional high fantasy style of play. 3.5 and Pathfinder cover the whole spectrum between the two, depending on level and style of play. 4e is definatly more "pulp" with magic really being everywhere.

 

[Kzach]

That's not what high fantasy means at all: High fantasy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Any fantasy setting is 'high fantasy' by merit of it's existence without connection to the real world. Even Harry Potter is considered 'high fantasy', despite it's real world connections.

Therefore the only definition that really matters in a fantasy setting is whether or not it's high or low magic.

 

[Klaus]

High Fantasy is more focused on epic struggles of Good vs. Evil, typically following a Chosen One. Usually has nonhuman races.

Low Fantasy is more focused on the day-to-day struggles of the main characters, who may or may not be "heroic". Usually has humans only.

High Magic has fireballs, wizards as allies, magic items, etc.

Low Magic has little visible magic, spellcasters are generally antagonists.

Lord of the Rings is mostly High Fantasy/High Magic.
Krull is High Fantasy/Low Magic.
Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser is mostly Low Fantasy/High Magic.
Conan is Low Fantasy/Low Magic.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I agree High Fantasy and High Magic are different and unrelated.

Though given the fantasy definition from the wikipedia page ... how do you characterize the Dresden Files? Star Wars?

 

[Klaus]

I agree High Fantasy and High Magic are different and unrelated.

Though given the fantasy definition from the wikipedia page ... how do you characterize the Dresden Files? Star Wars?

Haven't read Dresden Files, but I'd peg Star Wars as High Fantasy/Low Magic (by "magic", I'm talking strictly of the Force, not the high tech). The setting has varied races, epic Good vs. Evil and a mostly invisible magic system.

 

[Dausuul]

High fantasy is a meaningless term which has been defined approximately 6.2 bajillion different ways at different times. I quit using it a while ago. I prefer to divide my fantasy into categories like "epic," "sword and sorcery," "urban," and so forth, which have coherent if fuzzy definitions. The "high magic/low magic" split is a separate issue.

(My own reading preferences tend toward epic/low magic. Sadly, urban seems to be the dominant genre nowadays.)

 

[Umbran]

High Fantasy fiction is largely a low magic setting, with the exception of the Big Bad Evil and the occassional artifact that is stumbled acrossed (although there is the occassionally ascended hero). Low Fantasy (a.k.a pulp fantasy) throws magic about willy nilly (possibly involving a spell called "dragon slave").

While you are correct that "high fantasy" does not equal "high magic", what you say here isn't what I understand the term to mean.

High fantasy typically takes place in an invented, sometimes parallel, other world. Low fantasy typically takes place in real-world environments. The high and low refer mostly to difference from the reality you know.

Most "pulp fantasy" isn't low fantasy - it is sword and sorcery fantasy, which is usually high fantasy focused on personal conflicts rather than broad epic conflicts.

 

[Glade Riven]

That definition seems like an oversimplification. As starting point, certainly, it's great - but by that definition alone means Looney Tunes is technically high fantasy. It needs epic epicness, and part of that is being able to take itself seriously.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

Where did this "other world" definition of high fantasy come from? So Alice in Wonderland is high fantasy? That does not make any sense.

I always though that the terms High Fantasy and Low Fantasy came from distinguishing between the origin of conflicts. High Fantasy was based around metaphysical conflicts (Good vs Evil, Order vs Chaos, etc...) and Low Fantasy was based around more material (Money, Revenge, etc...) conflicts, sort of like High and Low Comedy.

 

[LostSoul]

The Dying Earth is high-magic but low fantasy (or swords & sorcery).