D&D 3E/3.5 Hide Skill (3.5), It's at least a move action!

[mikebr99]

Well, It's official!

For all you doubters out there, who thought you could full attack while hiding, you can't!

According to the Hide skill description, hiding isn't an action at all, except when you use the sniping option (see page 76 in the Player's Handbook), in which case hiding is a move action. For all practical purposes, however, you hide as a move action or as part of a move action. That is, if you're moving, you hide as part of your movement (something like drawing a weapon, see Part 2). If you don't move, it still takes you a move action to hide.

Mike

 

[Antoine]

Well, It's official!

For all you doubters out there, who thought you could full attack while hiding, you can't!

Mike

Relief ! At last…

 

[Abraxas]

We weren't doubters.
We were using the RAW.
The RAW have now been changed.

WoTC should now update the errata to remove attacking from the list of nearly impossible things you can do while hiding.
And the Hide skill needs to be changed to include something like the following:

Action: Using the Hide skill is a move action. If you have 1 rank or more in the Hide skill, you can Hide as a free action as part of a regular move.

The sad thing is if this is what they meant from the beginning this is all they would have had to have written from the beginning - the basic text was already in the PHB in the section on actions.

Just remember, now you can never use the hide skill to get in a melee sneak attack unless it initiates a surprise round or you win initiative and go before your opponent (in which case it's really the target being flat footed that lets you get a sneak attack in).

Feh. Because it was just tooooo powerful for the 7 shadowdancers out there.

 

[mikebr99]

We weren't doubters.
We were using the RAW.
The RAW have now been changed.

clarified, actually.

The errata now should be updated to remove attacking from the list of nearly impossible things you can do while hiding.

Why?
if you are in a hidden position, and a target walks by, you are most welcome to SA him, and remain hidden, if you make the -20 hide skill DC.

Just remember, now you can never use the hide skill to get in a melee sneak attack unless it initiates a surprise round or you win initiative and go before your opponent (in which case it's really the target being flat footed that lets you get a sneak attack in).

Not true... if you have cover or concealment, and threaten, you can hide while melee sneak attacking.

This is still easy for a Shadow Dancer to do...


Mike

 

[Deset Gled]

Well, It's official!

Maybe I'm just misreading here, but you state that this revelation comes from a Rules of the Game article. RotG articles are not official errata, and as such cannot change any of the rules in the SRD. Since this RotG article (like others before it) goes against the RAW, it is meaningless due to the Primary Source Rule in the DMG errata.

 

[Abraxas]

clarified, actually.

Rewritten - from Action: usually none to Action: usually a move action.

Why?
if you are in a hidden position, and a target walks by, you are most welcome to SA him, and remain hidden, if you make the -20 hide skill DC.

and

Not true... if you have cover or concealment, and threaten, you can hide while melee sneak attacking.

Only if you have HiPS.

1. Can't sneak attack with concealment (sniping is the exception).

2. Once you start to attack you are no longer hiding (cause hiding requires a move action).

This is still easy for a Shadow Dancer to do...

Never said it wasn't. Before it was only a shadowdancer who had a chance at a full attack while hiding before - so its not like the potential for one specific PrC was overpowered.

Like I said, Feh. Now I don't have to participate in the Hide and HiPS threads anymore. woo hoo.

 

[mikebr99]

Maybe I'm just misreading here, but you state that this revelation comes from a Rules of the Game article. RotG articles are not official errata, and as such cannot change any of the rules in the SRD. Since this RotG article (like others before it) goes against the RAW, it is meaningless due to the Primary Source Rule in the DMG errata.

RotG articles are supposed to clarify how things should work. And in this case, it clarifies that the hide skill is either a move equiv. action, or can be combined with a move action. Nothing less then that is legal. So, you cannot full attack and hide.


Mike

 

[Len]

RotG articles are supposed to clarify how things should work.

Yeah, like how the FAQ "clarifies" that 3.5 weapon sizes were just a dream. If you take everything Skip comes out with as core rules, you'll find yourself playing a different game every month.

 

[Deset Gled]

RotG articles are supposed to clarify how things should work. And in this case, it clarifies that the hide skill is either a move equiv. action, or can be combined with a move action.

The problem is that it's not clarifying, it's outright changing, even by the article's own admittance.

Just as you quoted, the RotG article states "According to the Hide skill description, hiding isn't an action at all, except when you use the sniping option (see page 76 in the Player's Handbook), in which case hiding is a move action." This is the actual, official rule. The RotG article goes directly against this text, and attempts to change the rule. Since the RotG article isn't official errata, it does not have the authority to do so.

You can feel free to play by the rules stated the RotG articles, or Sage rulings, or FAQ rulings if you like. But in the end, they're all just house rules.

 

[mikebr99]

Just as you quoted, the RotG article states "According to the Hide skill description, hiding isn't an action at all, except when you use the sniping option (see page 76 in the Player's Handbook), in which case hiding is a move action." This is the actual, official rule. The RotG article goes directly against this text, and attempts to change the rule. Since the RotG article isn't official errata, it does not have the authority to do so.

Close, real close. But the phb states:

Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.

The above states, in a vague way... that the hide skill is either used with movement, or as movement (Sniping).

People just seem to think that "ususally none" = free action.

RotG clarifies this by saying, in no uncertain terms... hide is at least a move action, or can be combined with one.

Mike