D&D 3E/3.5 Help with an Elven Kingdom in my Homebrew

[Gilladian]

I'm looking for help/ideas to build a small elven Kingdom in my campaign world. The PCs will probably end up visiting there in a not-too-future campaign. Right now, the full text of what I know is as follows: AVENVOLE: an almost exclusively elvish holding. Avenvole is an ancient land that has mysterious legends connected with it. Outsiders rarely see beyond the outermost areas.Population is 117,000, with fewer than 1,000 being non-elvish.Avenvole is ruled by consensus. There are few laws and the only organized force is the Airraneth - the guard, which keeps the valley relatively secure. It numbers 10,000 approximately with the ability to triple in times of need. Avenvole is tied to Irgirth-Cove (This is a realm of halflings, aquatic elves and grippli (frog folk)). Greenvale elves tend to have close familial ties or friendly loyalties to Avenvole. (Greenvale is the kingdom my PCs are from, a month's river-travel to the east). Relations between Avenvole and Greenvale are cordial but distant. As time goes by and human presence grows stronger, Avenvole will probably withdraw more and more into its own resources. Note that the presence of Avenvole on the "material plane" reflects a much larger elvish population and presence on the "fey side".

Other notes that may help: Elves in my world are tied to their home plane - the Feyshadow, which was badly damaged aeons ago in a war between the Fey and "somewhere else". The Fey "won" but their world was corrupted and is only slowly healing. They require a connection to the material plane for this healing to continue. This kingdom is one of their healing anchors.

The Greenvale Expedition that the PCs are to be part of is just "passing through" and while they want to be diplomatic, will not be staying in Avenvole long - they're using the river as a route for exploration, kind of "Lewis and Clark" like. I'm interested in having the elves of Avenvole demand some sort of "deed" from the Expedition to pass through. What would this elven community look like, given what I've got above, and what deed would they likely require from a group of mostly human or half-elven adventurer-types who randomly appear on their border?

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

I'd think if this valley is isolated and insular, the one thing of most value would be updated information about the outside world - updated maps, updated information about nearby threats, possibly requiring the party to scout - but not always end - these threats. It sounds like human expansion is a priority threat to Avenvole. They may also require information on the strengths and weaknesses of Greenvale as a matter of trust - but also since, who can say this expedition isn't mapping the land for further incursions - that information won't stay localized to Greenvale forever.

 

[Gus L]

Seem like a lot of world building (demographics and such) for what is essentially a point on your map that the party will pass through.

Rather then start from "how many elves" and "who are their allies" and such it's often good to start with "What kind of adventure do I want to run here"?

If you want to run a dungeon crawl - you need to figure how a dungeon fits in ... how does it impede the PCs travel or tempt them to stop?

If you want to run a lair fight against some sort of powerful foe - where does that foe lair, and how will the party be enticed to confront it?

If you want social intrigue and drama - you need to figure out how the party will get pulled into that, what the rewards are, who their potential patrons they might find are and such.

All of this is more important to actually running an adventure then the detailed sort of world building you're doing. This isn't to say some worldbuilding is bad, but alone it is extremely insufficient when what you are trying to build is an adventure, not a world. It's far easier to tailor empty chunks of your setting to an adventure then vice - versa. Detail will arise naturally as you build the small and approachable part the players will actually interact with.

To do that try asking these questions:
"What are the tensions here?"
"Who are the sides here?"
"What's valuable to the PC's here?"
"What's dangerous here?"

If that seems to hard ... start with the basic aesthetic.
"What does this place look like"
"What's special and visually impressive here?"
etc.

If none of this helps go read some Wikipedia about some odd location or thing in the real world. I like starting with various wikipedia lists.

Here's a fun one... The List of Ruined Palaces:

Category:Ruined palaces - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[aco175]

What did the PCs bring to trade? Seems some merchant would want to send some goods to the elves if/once they find out a group is going there. Even if not, the PCs have armor and weapons from the other land that may be worthy of trade for elven items. PCs might have spells and such to trade as well, or something that is suspicious if they fear bad intensions. Some knowledge checks against the elf spies to see if the PCs are telling the truth about human incursions and numbers and such.

Also could be a great place to insert party NPC to go with them. The PCs could use a Sacajawea to their Lewis and Clark and the elves could use a spy in their party. a 100,000 elves that make decisions by consensus means that they may be many groups they will encounter. Each group of several to 100 may come to a different consensus about what to do with the PCs and a 'guide' may smooth things over.

There could also be a threat that the PCs are heading to that the elves also want gone and may help them with elven bread and cloaks of elvenkind or they may not with the threat disturbed for fear of awakening the sleeping Smaug.

Some of all this may also depend on how much your players want to interact or how mature they are.

 

[Gilladian]

Seem like a lot of world building (demographics and such) for what is essentially a point on your map that the party will pass through.

Rather then start from "how many elves" and "who are their allies" and such it's often good to start with "What kind of adventure do I want to run here"?

If you want to run a dungeon crawl - you need to figure how a dungeon fits in ... how does it impede the PCs travel or tempt them to stop?

If you want to run a lair fight against some sort of powerful foe - where does that foe lair, and how will the party be enticed to confront it?

If you want social intrigue and drama - you need to figure out how the party will get pulled into that, what the rewards are, who their potential patrons they might find are and such.

All of this is more important to actually running an adventure then the detailed sort of world building you're doing. This isn't to say some worldbuilding is bad, but alone it is extremely insufficient when what you are trying to build is an adventure, not a world. It's far easier to tailor empty chunks of your setting to an adventure then vice - versa. Detail will arise naturally as you build the small and approachable part the players will actually interact with.

To do that try asking these questions:
"What are the tensions here?"
"Who are the sides here?"
"What's valuable to the PC's here?"
"What's dangerous here?"

If that seems to hard ... start with the basic aesthetic.
"What does this place look like"
"What's special and visually impressive here?"
etc.

If none of this helps go read some Wikipedia about some odd location or thing in the real world. I like starting with various wikipedia lists.

Here's a fun one... The List of Ruined Palaces:

Category:Ruined palaces - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks, yes, these are all things I do need to think about. But I LOVE worldbuilding! My campaign world is over 35 years old (maybe 25 in the current format) and I have run at least 10 separate campaigns in it. So any worlbuilding I do, for myself, will see future use in many games.

That being said, I will think in a more specifically adventure-related way. My current mulling is on the guard specifically, as that will be the first interaction, and then the diplomacy aspect. My Expedition has a diplomatic contingent which will do the heavy lifting, but we shall see if anyone wants to engage if I provide opportunity.

 

[Gilladian]

What did the PCs bring to trade? Seems some merchant would want to send some goods to the elves if/once they find out a group is going there. Even if not, the PCs have armor and weapons from the other land that may be worthy of trade for elven items. PCs might have spells and such to trade as well, or something that is suspicious if they fear bad intensions. Some knowledge checks against the elf spies to see if the PCs are telling the truth about human incursions and numbers and such.

Also could be a great place to insert party NPC to go with them. The PCs could use a Sacajawea to their Lewis and Clark and the elves could use a spy in their party. a 100,000 elves that make decisions by consensus means that they may be many groups they will encounter. Each group of several to 100 may come to a different consensus about what to do with the PCs and a 'guide' may smooth things over.

There could also be a threat that the PCs are heading to that the elves also want gone and may help them with elven bread and cloaks of elvenkind or they may not with the threat disturbed for fear of awakening the sleeping Smaug.

Some of all this may also depend on how much your players want to interact or how mature they are.

I love the idea of the party being guided away from something - I am envisioning the PCs as one small exploratory unit ranging out from the main Expedition, so if they realize the NPC is steering the larger group away from something, they will easily make a beeline for it. My group are pretty mature - the youngest is pushing 40, a university professor who teaches Latin. This will be the third campaign together.

 

[GMMichael]

Avenvole is an ancient land that has mysterious legends connected with it. Outsiders rarely see beyond the outermost areas.Population is 117,000, with fewer than 1,000 being non-elvish.Avenvole is ruled by consensus.

Consensus? Then the PCs should probably meet Ak-tuari, the 48-foot giant elf that convinces everyone to come to "consensus."

There are few laws and the only organized force is the Airraneth - the guard, which keeps the valley relatively secure. It numbers 10,000 approximately with the ability to triple in times of need.

Since outsiders rarely see beyond the outermost areas, I expect the Airraneth to be the primary encounter for your PCs. Them, and maybe some wooden palisades.

The Greenvale Expedition that the PCs are to be part of is just "passing through" and while they want to be diplomatic, will not be staying in Avenvole long - they're using the river as a route for exploration, kind of "Lewis and Clark" like. I'm interested in having the elves of Avenvole demand some sort of "deed" from the Expedition to pass through. What would this elven community look like, given what I've got above, and what deed would they likely require from a group of mostly human or half-elven adventurer-types who randomly appear on their border?

Hmm... good opportunity for moral dilemmas. To dig up an old, light one, maybe Ak-tuari is a bit of a poet, and wants some victims fresh ears to listen to her new material. It's horrible, maybe painfully so, and the PCs have to decide whether to tell the truth about how bad it is, or attempt to lie, say it's good poetry, and risk being called out as liars.

 

[Edgar Ironpelt]

The Greenvale Expedition that the PCs are to be part of is just "passing through" and while they want to be diplomatic, will not be staying in Avenvole long - they're using the river as a route for exploration, kind of "Lewis and Clark" like. I'm interested in having the elves of Avenvole demand some sort of "deed" from the Expedition to pass through. What would this elven community look like, given what I've got above, and what deed would they likely require from a group of mostly human or half-elven adventurer-types who randomly appear on their border?

My thought is that the deed should be a test of character, rather than a serious test of ability, something to show that the PCs are acting in good faith.

As for what the elven community looks like, you have a better idea of what you want than I do, but the place I'd start in working out the details is "What can the elves produce locally, within their realm, and what do they trade for? In particular, what are their primary sources of food?"

 

[Gilladian]

They are here on this plane primarily as food providers for their feywild brethren, in fact. They hunt, farm and gather here, but treat the land as a market garden, really. While the outer borders of the realm LOOK wild, over centuries every tree, plant or animal has been shaped to their will.

I like the test of character idea. Maybe they send the party to a group of strange and ugly folk to “recover a lost item” or find a missing person. It is a setup, but the PCs have to choose how they deal with these weird people, and thus demonstrate how they really behave. I shall think on it.