Help with an Archer build that doesn't suck...

[LiL KiNG]

Ok, so the power that be seem to favor certain weapons (and races) over others. Spiked chain over whips, melee (any) over ranged... 80 types of elves… etc.

We're in a 3.5 FR game one of our guys is deploying for a while so we're going to put our group on hold and run some new characters in the interim. I want to go from being a dps twf build to an archery build, but there isn’t a lot of love for archers (unless you have tons of plat). So I’m stuck right now.

For race I’m looking at either wild elf for the +2 Str/Dex and strongarm bracers to use a large greatbow (still think I’d need EWP though) or half-giant for powerful build and a large greatbow – but the -2 Dex hit hurts.
With the elf I could take one level of cleric for war/elf domains (can I take elf domain if I’m not an elf?) for free point blank shot and weapon focus, but feats aren’t too big of a concern yet because we can take up to two flaws for bonus feats. Skills I can figure out later so not too concerned about those either. Would love a race with +Dex and darkvision, but I dig the +Str so I can use mighty composite bows better too… lesser tiefling seems like it might be an OK alternative.

The build is what is bothering me, we will be fairly low level (assuming 6) and I want to be effective. So;
Mystic Ranger 6
Barbarian (ranger sub from UA) 1/Fighter 4/Order of Bow Initiate 1 (eventually get Scout 3 in there)
Barb (“) 1/ elf Cleric 1/Fighter 4
Ranger 3/Scout 3
??

I want high BAB, if I’m going to take any spell casting from Ranger I want to be good at it to use some of the spells from CoR. Fighter 4 would be for weapon spec of course, but the skill points and dead level bite, and eventually greater weapon spec. I know people don’t like OoBI but looking at it, its not that bad. You get to threaten adjacent w/ranged and fire with impunity at level 2 and level 10 extends your precision range to 60’ – late in the game but still nice. The +1d8 dmg shot as a standard action isn’t that bad if you combine it with Scout for the skirmish damage, you’ll want to be moving to get skirmish anyway so you could move 10+ ft and on your standard attack action get the OoBI precision damage and the Scouts skirmish damage added…

Also, since I am usually into melee build I’ve grown fond of the barbarian pouncing charger build – is there anything like that for ranged? Being able to move and still get a full attack? I found a few magic items that will make your move a swift action, but they are very limited 1 or 2/day type things.

Any thoughts, advice, suggestions? A better class/race combo?
All books allowed but no 3rd party (I may try to get the DM to OK Mystic Ranger if that seems the best bet)

 

[cjosephs1s]

Well here's some gear ideas.

Bow of True Arrows: 4000gp. +1 mighty comp longbow that adds Truestrike to every arrow fired. Its found in Sword and Fist

Bow of the Wintermoon is nice too. Found in MIC pg 48

Scout is a good class. Good bonus damage from skirmish.

Also look at Arcane Archer for prestige class if you want to go that way. It has some pretty cool stuff. Found in the DMG of all places.

Not sure if any of this is "better" that what you are planning...just different than what posted.

 

[Dandu]

Sounds like you want a Swift Hunter.

 

[Ranger19k]

I second swift hunter. I've probably recommended it 10 times on these boards for archer builds. I just find it fun.

I will also recommend against OoBI. I understand your point that the precision damage can be useful because scout skirmish damage is limited to the times when you move more than 10' and thus can only standard action anyways, but this is actually using skirmish the wrong way. Instead of embracing the limitation to a single standard attack, you should be looking into legal ways to increase those attacks and still get the skirmish damage. Good solutions include Travel Devotion or Anklets of Translocation (MIC) to allow 10' movement and still full attack with rapid shot for full skirmish damage on each. Or, many-shot and then greater many shot feats allowing for you to use your normal move and then still take multiple shots with skirmish damage on each. Either one of these solutions is head and shoulders above gimping yourself with OoBI.

The only really cool ability that OoBI gets is the close combat shot at second level, but instead of wasting two levels to get it via the prestige class, I've found that just memorizing the Arrow Mind spell (SpC) gets the job done in spades. Honestly, in most combats you won't need close combat shot (if you find you do, you might be doing something wrong), but for the times when you do get dragged in, one or two memorized Arrow Minds and a couple Pearls of Power (1st level) for a mere 1,000gp each really do the job well and completely eliminate the necessity to waste two levels in OoBI.

Just a thought.

 

[Ranger19k]

And I'm not very good with uber-builds, but maybe consider this for a 6th level start:

Scout 3 (take this first to get the skill points), and then either Ranger3 or Ranger2/Cloistered Cleric 1. Either way you use your 5th level feat to grab swift hunter feat.

If you go the CC route, try Knowledge and Travel domains which you can swap for Travel and Knowledge devotion, both of which are hugely useful for scouts. Or keep the knowledge domain and take knowledge devotion as a regular feat since Knowledge domain is useful on its own. Either way works. For the third domain, take and keep Elf Domain if you are an elf for the free Point Blank Shot and True Strike as the only domain spell you will ever cast. If you aren't an elf, there are plenty of other sweet domain powers to choose from for your keeper.

From there on out, I'd just go straight Ranger for the spells, although one additional level of Scout to pick up the free feat at 4th (Improved Skirmish probably) is also reasonable.

You mentioned CoR, so if Forgotten Realms material is allowed, also consider the Shooting Star Substitution for you ranger levels. You effectively give up your ranger animal companion for one additional spell per day or each level you can cast. I have found the extra spell to be more useful than the weak Ranger animal companion, but I'm sure others would disagree. Just consider it.

For 6th level starting gear, consider a Lesser Crystal of Energy Assault (MIC). It will start you off with an additional 1d6 energy damage to each bow-shot but without needing to commit to a permanent enhancement on your bow, so you can save up for something better sooner (force and splitting come to mind). And at only 3,000gp, it leaves plenty of other loot for an Anklet of Translocation (1,800gp) to start you skirmishing the right way.

As always, YMMV and all that jazz.

 

[LiL KiNG]

Cj: that bow sounds awesome but may be banned by my DM for being over-powered/under-priced (even though it follows the magic item building rules), someone else in the group tried that with a ring which came out super cheap.

I've looked at Arcane Archer and just feel that was a wasted PrC - it sounds neat but you have to take a level of arcane caster to qualify (or be a race with a SLA-at least that is what my DM ruled), however, you can add enchantment bonuses to your normal arrows, but by the time you can get into this prestige class you should have a +1 or higher bow already, making the first few levels of the class pointless. The only cool thing is the Death Arrow but you have to take all ten levels to reach that...

Others; I completely agree the Swift Hunter is tops - this is what my pouncing charger twf build is already, he has all the flavor of a frenzied berserker but his brains are still intact and he is useful skill-wise outside of combat as well. With him I actually dropped 5 skill points into speak language and with his 16 int I speak more languages than anyone else in the group. Quick anecdote; I was able to waylay 6 ogres from attack our party by speaking in giant to them, bought them off with a hemp rope and some rations...
So while I see how it could be good for an archer, I kinda wanted a new build instead of regurgitating my current build with different weapons.

Ranger; I can see your point on OoBI, and I also just found elvencraft bows which let you threaten the area around you as you can use the bow as a bow or a quarterstaff - not sure if this will let you fire an arrow while threatened, but it at least doesn't leave me defenseless. I'm not much of a spell user so had to look up arrow mind and its perfect, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Can anyone answer do you have to be an Elf to use the Elf Domain as cleric? If I played a human who worshiped an Elven deity with access to the Elf domain could I use it? Kinda odd I know, but I always feel trapped with the racial deities and usually end up worshiping outside of my races 'normal' pantheon.

 

[Dandu]

A bow with a wand chamber and a wand of Arrow Mind is a great way of avoiding Order of the Bow Initiate.