Help putting together a Barbarian-Thief

[nikolai]

I'm thinking about putting together a Barbarian-Thief, obviously based on multi-classing in barbarian/rogue. Any ideas on feat/level/skill selections to make an effective and interesting character would be a great help. I want to get a hypothetical advancement worked out and make sure the character's going to be viable from low levels up.

At the moment I'm thinking about, stats (decending): Str, Dex, Con, Wis, Int, Cha. I'm going to pump the stat raises into Dex.

Level 1: Barbarian, greatsword, power attack, cleave. A pretty standard barbarian, I can see myself having a lot of fun hacking my way through 1st level.

Level 2/3: Rogue levels, improved initiative. With the rogue skills (move silently, hide, spot, listen) high speed and initiative check, I can see myself charging into combat early and using the damage output (rage, greatsword, strength, sneak attack) and cleave to have some fun at the start of combat.

At the moment I think this is a viable concept. I can't see where to go from here though. I think the 4th level will probably be rogue again - for the 2d6 sneak attack - but after this ???. Any idea how to advance the concept from here? I'm concerned cleave is soon going to be redundant and can't see any obvious feats to take to keep a coherent build from this point.

So from 5th level up... where do I go.

Any help?

nikolai.

 

[EPRock]

I would recomend taking your first level as a rogue with the additional skill points it will make a big difference.

 

[Technik4]

I'm a firm believer that 1 level of barbarian can make a good rogue build even better. Granted, you do miss out on a lot of skills, and you will be more of a "wilderness" rogue. But getting double the hp for level 1 is as good as Toughness x2, plus Rage and Fast movement (esp nice for halfling rogues to shore up weakness on speed). Going for another barb level later in your career can be nice, as it makes your entire group of levels count for uncanny dodge (they all stack).

Personally I would go 1st level barb, then go straight rogue for 3-5 levels, then pick up another barb level, straight rogue until prc or 20.

For stats I would keep Dex, Con, Int, Str, Wis, Cha in that order. Why? Well Dex because you will be lightly armored, but you can't be a front-liner like a barb, so you will need high dex, weapon finesse, etc. Con next to pump hp (youre a "hardy" "angry" rogue) and power up Rage a little. Int for more skills, followed finally by Str (even if your str is only 12-13, rage will pump you up quite a bit). Finally dump Wis and Cha.

For skills I would stick to things that are Dex, Int, and Str based. Become the predator in the wild. Trapmaking and Poisonmaking have a lot of potential.

I'm not sure greatsword or greataxe is the way to go. Both of those weapons are really obvious threats, and very large at that. I'd pick up a buckler and go TwF style. Rogues benefit the most from 2wf, and your BAB should be slightly kicked up from a regular rogue's. It also only costs 1 feat, and you qualify for weapon finesse at first level.

1- Brb Two Weapon Fighting (3.5), Weapon Finesse (3.5)
2- Rog Sneak +1d6
3- Rog Wpn Focus
4- Rog Sneak +2d6
5- Rog
6- Rog Sneak +3d6, [Start a chain here. Either Power Attack -> Improved Sunder or Dodge -> Mobility -> Spring Attack. Improved Feint (3.5) may also be a good option.]

Sneak another barb level in there at some point to solidify Uncanny Dodge (as well as a nice hp boost) and youre ready.

Technik

 

[Rel]

The Barbarian/Rogue (actually a Barbarian/Rogue/Sorcerer/Fighter) in our party picked up Extra Rage and Extended Rage as feats. It is nice for him to be able to rage just about as often and as long as he could ever need to.

 

[Spatzimaus]

General advice:
> I'm assuming you're Human, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, or Halfling to avoid the XP penalty. Hey, they all start with H! Go figure.
> Level 1 as a Rogue, not as a Barbarian. Skill points good. You'll lose 3 HP to gain 16 skill points. Definitely worth it.
> Power Attack isn't really useful at first level, since you need BAB to trade off, so hold off on that until at least level 3. Improved Initiative, on the other hand, is great at level 1. Unless, of course, you've really got your heart set on Cleave.

Adding a level or two of Barbarian to a Rogue is just fine. Adding a level or two of Rogue to a Barbarian doesn't work quite as well in practice, but it's still okay.

For the true munchkin, add Fighter levels to the mix. Assuming you're Human, Half-Elf, or Dwarf, a Barbarian 2/Rogue 2/Fighter 4 is not only a strong fighter, he can qualify for LOTS of PrCs. If you want, add a level of Ranger too, or a third Rogue level (but not both!) Just make sure you find a PrC you like before you do this.

 

[paulewaug]

Hey make sure you check out:
the Conan d20 site

The site lists Conan all the way thru the levels.
It may at least give you a few ideas.
Here is Conan at 5th level

He is the quintessential Barbarian Thief and this site is excellent, (Obviously) I highly recommend it.

 

[Darklone]

For the true munchkin, add Fighter levels to the mix. Assuming you're Human, Half-Elf, or Dwarf, a Barbarian 2/Rogue 2/Fighter 4 is not only a strong fighter, he can qualify for LOTS of PrCs. If you want, add a level of Ranger too, or a third Rogue level (but not both!) Just make sure you find a PrC you like before you do this.

Right. If you want to stay a viable melee char, you need hitpoints. That's why I'd start as barbarian too. Pick up three rogue levels, then 2 fighter levels.

You'd have enough feats for Power Attack& Cleave and perhaps PBS and Rapid Shot? It's always nice to have a good bow handy... but you'll be able to shoot well even without those feats. Besides, archery is mostly necessary against fliers and PBS won't help there.

Stats: Str 16 at least. Dex 16 too (breastplate). Con: Not less than 14. Int: You're human and most of your levels will be rogue... so a 10 MIGHT be enough.

I wouldn't use TWF. Barbarian fast movement plus tumble does not work together well with the full attack actions. Besides, it costs a lot of feats and your sneak attack damage is lower than your average rogue, so you'd better pick a good weapon. Twohanded weapons plus rage really rocks at strength 18 or higher.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

General advice:
> I'm assuming you're Human, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, or Halfling to avoid the XP penalty. Hey, they all start with H!

Except Human, they even all start with "Half" So much for what the rules think of your concept

My advice for a Barbarian-Thief:
Something to keep him from moving for a while (hold person, sleep, stunning, whatever) and then a strong rope or even those magical manacles. Or something that removes the need of fresh air and food, and a portable hole. If you don't subdue them fast, you'll never get to the fence. OH! You mean a barbarian/rogue multiclassed character! (sorry, couldn't resist with that header )

 

[krunchyfrogg]

Level 1: Barbarian, greatsword, power attack, cleave. A pretty standard barbarian, I can see myself having a lot of fun hacking my way through 1st level.

Level 2/3: Rogue levels, improved initiative. With the rogue skills (move silently, hide, spot, listen) high speed and initiative check, I can see myself charging into combat early and using the damage output (rage, greatsword, strength, sneak attack) and cleave to have some fun at the start of combat.

I like your concept. My advice:

1)Go to that Conan site above. Great site.
2)Ask your DM about the Apprentice Level option. It's in the DMG (and I assume it's made it to 3.5). Good stuff.
3)Make Rogue your initial class. The skill points are still great, and you can still take power attack and cleave @1st level (assuming you're a human).