harpies & bards

[Spectrum Rider]

In the MM entry for the harpy, it says about the harpy's captivating song: "A bard's countersong ability allows the captivated creature to make a new Will save."

This is somewhat different from the PH description of the bard's countersong ability. There, the bard's Perform check can be used in plac of the character's Will save - if (I've always assumed) the bard is playing at the time the character needs to make a Will save.

Is the MM giving a special rule for harpies, or is it a simple misstatement of the countersong effect?

Also: DOES the bard have to be playing the countersong at the moment a character needs to make his save, or can it all wait until the bard's turn? (For harpies, and/or in general.)

And: what happens with multiple harpies? Do characters have to make multiple saves? Does it matter if the harpies are all singing at once, or if they start at different times?

Any advice is welcome.

The Spectrum Rider

 

[Mr Fidgit]

hey Spectrum Rider! here's some thoughts on the matter...

if a harpy started its captivating song when a bard wasn't singing, when the bard started a countersong, anyone who failed a save would be allowed a new one

if a bard was singing when the captivating song started, the perform check could be substituted for another's saving throw (if it was better than the save rolled) at the time of the attack. if the other person failed the save anyway, and the bard kept performing the countersong, that person would allowed another saving throw.

i don't think it would have to wait 'until the bard's turn' once the countersong began since that perform check can affect anyone who is subject to a sonic or language attack (which is rolled every round), unless you (or your DM) ruled that the perform check could only be rolled on the bard's initiative

(does that make any sense?)

i think this is a special rule regarding the harpy's attack and the use of countersong (as opposed to an error in the countersong effect)

IMO, multiple harpies would require multiple saves, especially since the captivating song is an attack