D&D 5E Half Giant Athasian?

[Zardnaar]

I have been pondering for a long time a faithful adaption of Darksun to 4E and part of that includes the races fro the original Darksun boxed set. And that includes thngs such as a 12' Half Giant. Note I do not buy into a reskinned Goliath or 4E Darksun at all so Dragonborn are right out as well along with Drow and Tieflings.

A good chunk of the PHB classes and some of the races would also be unavailable.

ANyway I want make the Half GIant as a big bruiser of a PC race. It would be somethig like.

+4 Str, +2 Con
+2 hit points per level
Double Carrying Capacity (2E they had double hit points)
Can use medium sized two handed weapons in one hand
Maybe 22 or 24 maxiumum strength (IDK)

Note in Darksun I would also use a very very low rate of natural healing. 1HD a day regained sort of low. In 2E Darksun PCs were also more powerful than the PHB so I though to balance the Half Giant out the "mundane" races could each get a bonus feat. This fits into the old 2E thing of starting at level 3 and having 5d4 (or 6d4 drop the lowest) for ability scores. So how would you do a large PC race in 5E and no I am really really not interested in a refluffed Goliath as a half giant.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I like the approach you're using of messing with racial ability score maximums. Now just add in a minimum (you must have at least Str 18 to play a half-giant) and you're back in 2E.

I also like your benefit RE: two-handed weapons and such. (Also, "medium-sized heavy weapons are not heavy for you.") Don't forget the extra costs for clothing, extra food/water needed, etc. In 5E it might be appropriate to say they take Exhaustion for not drinking/eating several times a day instead of just one. Usually won't be an issue but it's there as a distinct vulnerability.

I'd let Half-giants and other Large creatures use Large weapons like the ones in the MM. Double-sized weapons get double damage dice, so a Half-Giant's Halberd would be both Heavy for him and would do 2d10 instead of 1d10, just like an Oni's Halberd.

I'd balance this out partly with another old 2E favorite: decreased ability maximums. "You cannot be a half-giant with a starting Wis or Cha over 12 or a starting Dex over 15, and you cannot take the Resilient (Wis) feat." (Not that your typical munchkin was going to do so anyway.) Also, "You have disadvantage on saves against charm effects" to replace the old wishy-washy alignment/impressionable thing, although keep the wishy-washy fluff.

This still adds up to kind of an overpowered race by 5E standards, so don't forget about the limitations of Size and social status. Just as the Mounted Combatant can't necessarily bring his horse everywhere, even so the horse-sized Half Giant is not allowed everywhere. (It might be good to use character trees so the player still has someone to play at events where half-giants are not allowed.)

Honestly, the crucial balancing factor for half-giants is going to be the opportunity cost anyway. A half-giant will be killer overpowered in melee, but melee is pretty weak in 5E already so what you're really doing is ensuring that half-giant gladiators will be the "best kind of melee fighter," possibly squeezing out other melee fighters--but you won't squeeze out elven archers (fighters or rangers), halfling psionicists, or human defilers, or half-elf bards because they're simply not competing for the same design space. In a Dark Sun setting, Str-based classes are already at a disadvantage w/rt AC because full plate won't be available, whereas Dex-based elves can wear light armor and still rock AC 20.

In short, I think the half-giant as you've painted it would work out well in Dark Sun due to the nature of the setting. It probably won't be appropriate elsewhere.

 

[Wik]

I wasn't a fan of the goliath "half-giant", either. In fact, much of the setting changes to 4e Dark Sun bugged the hell out of me... though, all in all, I think the book was a success and actually quite like it. If 5e ever has a DS, I wouldn't be adverse to wotc using it as a starting point (hopefully, though, they drop the "every race must exist in this setting" rhetoric they had in 4e).

As for your racial write-up.... I'm not sure. I think you'd be better off writing to the intent of the rules, rather than a direct conversion of what was in 2e. After all, 2e is not a strong starting point for mechanical fairness.

I'd keep the half-giants large. I'd make it hard for them to find armour that fits (at LEAST four times the cost, and maybe it still isn't great for AC?). Often overlooked is the fact that in 2e, weapons usually did more damage against large creatures anyways, which was WHY half-giants had double HP. So, in 5e, you don't need the double HD thing going on.

So, were it me, it'd be something like this:

1. +2 STR, +2 CON
2. Double carrying capacity
3. Armour costs 4x as much, and gives one less point of AC.
4. Large size - with the space that takes up.
5. Variable alignment means they're immune to alignment-based spell effects
6. Once per short rest can re-roll a strength-based damage roll and keep the better result
7. Unarmoured AC equal to 12 plus dex modifier.

 

[Bera]

The 13th Age in Glorantha playtest rules have an interesting troll mechanic that you might be able to steal: Strength and Constitution have to be among the highest three ability scores for a half-giant (highest 4 if there's a tie for third place). This is a different mechanic for enforcing half-giants be strong and tough (and conversely can't be super great at a wide combo of other abilities).

Otherwise a lot of the other suggestions here are good. Even if you don't like the Goliath in Dark Sun, its a decent place to start looking at possible mechanics. I'd caution you to keep in mind the whole system of 2nd Edition though, along the lines of the comment above noting that in 2e some weapons did more damage against large creatures and thus the large PC races like Half Giant got extra HP.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Often overlooked is the fact that in 2e, weapons usually did more damage against large creatures anyways, which was WHY half-giants had double HP.

I think this overstates the case, especially considering that out of the entire universe of things that can hurt you in Darksun, only the ultra-rare greatswords did anything like double damage to large-sized creatures. Large size is primarily a vulnerability for monsters, not PCs who fight monsters. It's also a vulnerability for PCs who fight NPCs, but the difference is minimal between 2d4+7 (glaive-guisarme wielded with 19 Strength, 'cause it's Darksun) and 2d6+7 (glaive-guisarme wielded with 19 Strength against a Large creature), not to mention all the other weapons like the guisarme-voulge, warhammer, mace, longbow that did normal damage to Large creatures and the occasional weapon like the broadsword, sickle, khopesh, morningstar, dagger, and club which actually did reduced damage against Large creatures. Then there's Fireballs, poison, psionic attacks like Psychic Crush, and all the other hazards of daily Darksun life which are equally effective at ablating HP from Large and Medium creatures (as well as all the hazards which bypass HP entirely, but let's not talk about those right now).

Overall I think it's fair to say that the Greatsword/Longsword advantage against Large creatures may have been one factor in giving half-giants extra HP, but the larger factor is that half-giants are supposed to be genuinely tougher to kill via HP ablation.

 

[Valmarius]

Could maybe give the giant an extra hit dice and double hit points at level 1. It would be strong at early levels but not that strong later on. We already have something similar with hill dwarves gaining extra hp/level, this would be a different way of doing something similar.

I like this idea. Make them very tough early, but the impact lessens with time.
Maybe something like. Thick Skinned: Your Hit Points increase by an amount equal to your Constitution score. If your Constitution later increases, so does the bonus provided by Thick Skinned.

You'd probably start with 15/16 extra hit points at first level and end up with 20 later (which is the same benefit as dwarves will get at max level).

 

[Wik]

I think this overstates the case, especially considering that out of the entire universe of things that can hurt you in Darksun, only the ultra-rare greatswords did anything like double damage to large-sized creatures. Large size is primarily a vulnerability for monsters, not PCs who fight monsters. It's also a vulnerability for PCs who fight NPCs, but the difference is minimal between 2d4+7 (glaive-guisarme wielded with 19 Strength, 'cause it's Darksun) and 2d6+7 (glaive-guisarme wielded with 19 Strength against a Large creature), not to mention all the other weapons like the guisarme-voulge, warhammer, mace, longbow that did normal damage to Large creatures and the occasional weapon like the broadsword, sickle, khopesh, morningstar, dagger, and club which actually did reduced damage against Large creatures. Then there's Fireballs, poison, psionic attacks like Psychic Crush, and all the other hazards of daily Darksun life which are equally effective at ablating HP from Large and Medium creatures (as well as all the hazards which bypass HP entirely, but let's not talk about those right now).

Overall I think it's fair to say that the Greatsword/Longsword advantage against Large creatures may have been one factor in giving half-giants extra HP, but the larger factor is that half-giants are supposed to be genuinely tougher to kill via HP ablation.

Sure. I can get behind that logic. And agree with it - the difference between, say, a longsword's d8/d12 is pretty minimal.

But it's only one part of the reasoning. First, half-giants in every 2e dark sun game I ever ran had almost no armour - and almost no AC. So, they got hit more. Second, they didn't have the constitution of other characters for some reason - I don't know why this is, but it was, in my own personal experience. Third, they were big - and were usually the primary target. I know people always focused fire on half-giants. So, double hit dice were pretty much REQUIRED in 2e.

Plus, it made them into super tough guys. Which kind of stepped on the mul's toes. I rarely saw a mul in my 2e games... despite thinking they were absolutely awesome. People that liked muls, liked half-giants more.

So yeah, I don't think double hit dice work in 5e.

 

[Jester David]

How you design the half-giant depends on whether or not you want the race to be broken or not. Which is, actually, a choice, since not everyone cares as much for balance.

Now, if I were designing the half-giant, I'd start with the goliath and modify where necessary. Ability Scores, Natural Athlete, and Powerful Build can stay. They all work.

Stones Endurance could be replaced with either an extra Hit Dice that can be used for healing (a d12), or a small increase in hit points (let's say 7+Con). This might increase at higher levels.
Mountain Born can be replaced by something else as well. But it's a ribbon ability. Maybe something about being able to navigate in the Silt Sea or survive with less food.
They also need the alignment ability where they shift their alignment one step each day.

Actually going up to large size isn't necessary and brings with it a host of problems. Not the least is the doubling of weapon damage dies (impressive extra damage every round). The related penalty of gear costing more is too variable to offset that, and anything that grants an aura, grants reach, or generates a burst is more powerful. A large creature with a polearm can attack a sizable space.
At best you could add in a "large weapons" racial ability, that allows them to use weapons sized for a half-giant that deal an extra 1 point of damage.

Alternatively... you could give all the other races a bump.
Or, as a more complicated alternative, give half-giants extra abilities, even more hit points/Hit Dice, and let them count as a second level character. This is a little 3e/level advancement, but it works better since you're not calculating how much the power of an established monster matches a classed character, but designing a race that matches the rough power level of a regular character with a class level.

 

[Bera]

Rather than double hit dice, you could give them a few bonus hit dice or hit points in a principled way, such as at 1st, 5th, 11th, and 17th level. I think its still pretty potent and you'd want to include some of the restrictions or limitations mentioned above.

 

[Revan79]

I have been pondering for a long time a faithful adaption of Darksun to 4E and part of that includes the races fro the original Darksun boxed set. And that includes thngs such as a 12' Half Giant. Note I do not buy into a reskinned Goliath or 4E Darksun at all so Dragonborn are right out as well along with Drow and Tieflings.

A good chunk of the PHB classes and some of the races would also be unavailable.

ANyway I want make the Half GIant as a big bruiser of a PC race. It would be somethig like.

+4 Str, +2 Con
+2 hit points per level
Double Carrying Capacity (2E they had double hit points)
Can use medium sized two handed weapons in one hand
Maybe 22 or 24 maxiumum strength (IDK)

Note in Darksun I would also use a very very low rate of natural healing. 1HD a day regained sort of low. In 2E Darksun PCs were also more powerful than the PHB so I though to balance the Half Giant out the "mundane" races could each get a bonus feat. This fits into the old 2E thing of starting at level 3 and having 5d4 (or 6d4 drop the lowest) for ability scores. So how would you do a large PC race in 5E and no I am really really not interested in a refluffed Goliath as a half giant.

Just so you are aware, Dragonborn are part of the Athasian canon, they go by the name of Dray.