Half-Celestial +2?

[Lord Pendragon]

Page 26-27 of the Book of Exalted Deeds describes the Half-Celestial template applied to a 0HD creature (such as a human), as having an LA of +2. Has this been errata'd, or is this true?

Previously, I had thought the Half-Celestial was a +4 LA, which seemed ludicrously underpowered. But I may be willing to sacrifice 2 character levels for the template.

So is this outdated info? Or is a half-celestial human a +2 LA?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Page 26-27 of the Book of Exalted Deeds describes the Half-Celestial template applied to a 0HD creature (such as a human), as having an LA of +2. Has this been errata'd, or is this true?

I don't have BoED, but I have a vague recollection of a suggestion that the template be +2 LA without wings, or +4 with wings.

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Do you know if the BoED is the most recent (and therefore theoretically most accurate) authority on the Half-Celestial template? I'm trying to remember what the source of the 4 level half-celestial class was....

 

[Teslacoil1138]

Do you know if the BoED is the most recent (and therefore theoretically most accurate) authority on the Half-Celestial template? I'm trying to remember what the source of the 4 level half-celestial class was....

That would be the monster manual.

The ECL +2 template you are thinking of is "celestial creature" (also from MM) not "half-celestial". Ironic isn't it?

And I think the half-celestial is ok at ECL +4 due to all the ability bonuses, spell-like abilities, and resistances/immunities they get. I've played a few half-celestials and they are perfectly fine the way they are. Now, half-dragons on the other hand...

 

[Jeremy]

Maybe a wingless 3.0 half-celestial could be +2. But a winged 3.5 SR totin' resurrection throwing half celestial definately is a +4.

Isn't the BoED 3.0?

 

[Scion]

BoED is 3.5, very firmly 3.5.

Also, the +2 for low hd creatures increases dramatically as it increases. I wont post the whole chart but it goes from +2 at low hd up to +7 at high hd.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The ECL +2 template you are thinking of is "celestial creature"

Nope. Half-Celestial. I've cited the page number.

Also, the +2 for low hd creatures increases dramatically as it increases. I wont post the whole chart but it goes from +2 at low hd up to +7 at high hd.

Yes, but as I understand it, the HD listed is for the base creature, not including class levels. It even gives an example of a human half-celestial and lists the LA as +2, regardless of whatever class levels are taken after that.

Really, though, I'm not trying to get into an argument over how balanced the Half-Celestial is at LA +2 or LA +4. I want to know if I'm reading the BoED correctly, and if the BoED is the most current version of the Half-Celestial in print.

 

[Scion]

That is true at least, looks to be +2 LA for any of the core races.

Whether this is overpowered or not probably depends on the campaign. Although, the book definately tries to take into account the difficulty of being extremely good, as a half celestial would be. The template also took several pretty heavy hits from the 3.0 version.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

That is true at least, looks to be +2 LA for any of the core races.

And if the MM and the BoED are the only two sources for the template, then the BoED is definitely the latter version. I have my answer then. Thank you.

Whether this is overpowered or not probably depends on the campaign. Although, the book definately tries to take into account the difficulty of being extremely good, as a half celestial would be. The template also took several pretty heavy hits from the 3.0 version.

Now that I've gotten my answer, we can talk balance. I'm considering this for a paladin, so the synergy with the template is high. However, it's not perfect, as several of the Half-Celestial abilites are mirrored by the paladin core class (detect evil, immunity to disease, protection from evil, holy smite, off the top of my head).

At +4 LA, the template seemed worthless. Sacrificing 4 levels of paladin would mean a net -2 to attacks (and a huge delay in iterative attack progression), less hit points until very high levels, etc. etc. Just was not worth it.

Now at +2 LA, it definitely looks appealing. Power-wise, it strikes me as close to balanced, though on the powerful side of balanced.

The flight that some people seem to believe worth +2 LA (!!) does not strike me as particularly powerful. My paladin will already have a flying mount, and has to be in melee range to do his job anyway. For a Half-Celestial wizard, of course, this ability may be far more useful.

 

[jabberwocky]

The BoED, as far as I remember, had the variable LA for the Half-celestial template because that version only gave the spell-like abilities based off of racial HD, not class levels. So as any of the PHB races, you don't get any spell-like abiltities at all. Though, thinking back, I don't think that was explicitly spelled out - but it's the only way the increasing LA chart makes even a little sense. Plus, I think it's a bad idea - I would happily give up the SLA (of which the more useful ones I won't even see until epic levels) in exchange for 2 fewer LA. The SLAs are just not as powerful as they are worked out to be in the ECL of the BoED template. I would keep the half-celestial at a +4 LA as the MM has it.