Hag Covey

[Donatello]

So the MM details the concept of the Hag covey, where three hags get together and get bonus powers and such because of it.

If the covey was made up of one of each hag, what would the EL of such an encounter be? an Annis Hag is CR 6, Green Hag is CR 5 and Sea Hag is CR 4. Normally I would assign EL7 given those numbers, but the extra powers they get as a covey would not be taken into account. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Terraism]

So the MM details the concept of the Hag covey, where three hags get together and get bonus powers and such because of it.

If the covey was made up of one of each hag, what would the EL of such an encounter be? an Annis Hag is CR 6, Green Hag is CR 5 and Sea Hag is CR 4. Normally I would assign EL7 given those numbers, but the extra powers they get as a covey would not be taken into account. Any input would be appreciated.

Hrm. I'm without books right now, but from what I recall of the recommended CR system, two creatures of a given CR make for an EL CR+2 encounter. So we could break it down such that:

The Annis Hag, at CR6, could be represented as a pair of CR4 monsters (by the rule that two CR4 = EL6.) We don't have two CR4 monsters, but we have one CR4 and one CR5, which is reasonably close... ergo, we now have the Annis at CR6 and the combined Green Hag/Sea Hag at EL6. We can combine the EL again, easily since we've got two of the same - thus, the suggested EL of all three is actually EL8, not 7 (two at CR6 = EL8.)

Now, accounting for the fact that it was actually a 5, not a 4, it's probably just over "traditional" EL8. Add in the covey abilities - SRD is blocked here, so I can't check, but I don't remember them being too significant - and I'd probably say that, combined with the slightly higer EL8, it's enough to bump it up one more. And I'd call the hag covey an EL9. That help at all?

 

[Slapzilla]

I'd sugget CR9 also. If the CR4 and CR5 become a CR7 by themselves and powers added to the group enhance (retroactively) the CR4 up to CR5 and the CR6 up to CR7, then two CR7s equal a CR9. "But wouldn't the CR5 also bump up?" Whatever, I say 'go for it'! Have the covey work thier divinations like mad and utilize fully their ability to enslave the minds of creatures (perhaps using NPCs the PCs don't want to harm) and crank it all the way to CR10! Give each of them a pile of scrolls too. If it just so happens they have just the right scroll to mess up the PCs, well they are well practiced divinatrixes, aren't they? 'Course, then it may go all the way to CR11! What I'm trying to say is, don't get hung up on some incomplete book rule. Remember, the difference between a CR10 and a CR2 is in the DMing. Make it memorable.

 

[Donatello]

SRD is blocked here, so I can't check

It is actually in the SRD. Check the end of the entry for "Hag", after the three descriptions. The additional abilities they get, as well as the powers of a hag eye are spelled out.

As for adding scrolls and such, that will be part of their belongings anyway. Unless I go above the normal gp value for a villain's equipment, there's no need to increase the EL.

Thanks for the input guys, I'll run with EL9 for my first run through and see how my party does.

 

[Terraism]

It is actually in the SRD. Check the end of the entry for "Hag", after the three descriptions. The additional abilities they get, as well as the powers of a hag eye are spelled out.

I gotcha. I was just posting from work yesterday, and all three of the online SRDs I know of are blocked by the filter. I'm constantly amazed that ENWorld isn't.

As for adding scrolls and such, that will be part of their belongings anyway. Unless I go above the normal gp value for a villain's equipment, there's no need to increase the EL.

Thanks for the input guys, I'll run with EL9 for my first run through and see how my party does.

That said, now that I'm looking over it with the description of what they benefit from... hrm. I may consider their covey abilities worth an extra 1.5 EL, bumping them up to 10. Really depends on the style of the game - will they be a strictly combat encounter, or are they going to be used more as background/preparation/BBEG(gals) for a while?

Skimming through their list...

• Animate Dead: They can animate up to 36 HD of zombies and skeletons with this ability, and any given undead can have up to 18 HD. It's worth noting that summoned/animated creatures don't add to the EL of an encounter - they're assumed to be part of the primary creature's CR already - but in this case, since it's unusual, it may be worth considering at least a slight nudge. Remember, it's a spell-like ability, so they need components as usual, which means 25 gp from their funds per HD of dead things.
• Bestow Curse: Not really worth any major boost. It's certainly not a bad spell, but primary casters throw around worse, and the fact that it's really an in-combat (range of touch) spell that requires a full-round action from all three makes it relatively worthless versus PCs.
• Control Weather: More of a situational spell - though an impressive one - than a combat power, they could probably use it to gain some minor battlefield bonus, at least - given their relative strength, compared to humans, they're better able to withstand heavy winds in combat, for example.
• Dream: No change whatsoever. Nifty, but not a challenging ability.
• Forcecage: This is the biggy. No save, no SR. If you've got a normal-sized party, it's well-worth the covey's time and effort to spend the round throwing this thing around them. It lasts for the better part of the day (18 hours,) and if the covey can't wipe out the party by then, they have a problem. The only counters to it are teleportation magics or disintegrate, and a party facing these three likely won't have any access to the latter... so they could be completely screwed. It does cost the covey a lot of coin, though, so it's likely they'll use it sparingly or not have the components on hand. If they do, though, this would certainly justify an EL hike, given the relative lack of options the party has against it.
• Mind Blank: Irritating, especially if you've got an enchanter in the party who's completely hosed by it. In all likelihood, all three of the hags will have this active on them at almost all times, so no scrying or any other magical information gathering around them. Not really an EL hike, just something to watch out for if you've got a mind-affecting caster... they probably won't get to participate much in the encounter.
• Mirage, Veil, and Vision: Not going to address these separately - they're all situational illusions that, while handy, aren't likely going to change things much as far as the encounter difficulty is concerned, unless they're using them for surprise. But even then, it's minor enough I'd consider it part of the general EL hike for the covey.

Anyway, enough talking. I'd say that most of the covey spells warrant the +1 EL that Slapzilla & I recommended earlier, putting them at EL9... but, if you're going to make heavy use of either their Animate Dead or Forcecage abilities, I'd probably peg them at EL10, instead.