Grim Tales Supplements?

[JoeGKushner]

So I've been reading over some of the threads about Grim Tales and noticed that the request for a magic book came up several times.

Now as I'm a fan of various feats and prestige classes, I wonder if we'll see some more treatment of various talent trees for the system that emulate those abilities as GT does now with 3.5 D&D class abilities.

One other thing I'm wondering, is if Bad Axe will go the Monte Cook route in that all future supplements will include an appendix that provides quick notes on using that book with Grim Tales. I can see such a thing for the Heroes of High Favor Anthology being a great use.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I'm not sure I completely understand the question.

I don't think the HOHF series will have notes on using it with Grim Tales, no. It's a different product line for a different kind of game.

At any rate, you should be able to use anything d20 within Grim Tales, anyway... If you want a dwarven Tunnel Fighter in a Grim Tales game, just add the class: You lose some of the flexibility of the core classes but gain some very specific class abilities. Generally speaking, if something is too good or so specific that it wouldn't work as a core class ability, I don't think a GM should "convert" it to a talent tree.

With regard to supplements, there's lots I want to do, but one thing I don't want to do is stuff that I think should be fairly easy for GMs to do for themselves-- at least, it would be farther down on my list of priorities. I definitely think Feats fall into this category (anybody can write a feat and there are hundreds if not thousands of them available that are already fully compatible with GT), but also a "Book that Turns Class Abilities into Talent Trees."

Which is not to say that I wouldn't do such a book, but I think that supplements that cover broader ranges of rulesets (Spellcasting being a good example) with more intense design are higher up on my priority list.

I hope that answers your question to your satisfaction!

Wulf

 

[JoeGKushner]

Well, with the appendix notes, I was thinking, for example, that certain class abilities might be good candidates for talents and advanced talents and a quick list that broke down each ability into it's place and eligible class would allow the user to retain the Grim versitility while adding new options.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Well, with the appendix notes, I was thinking, for example, that certain class abilities might be good candidates for talents and advanced talents and a quick list that broke down each ability into it's place and eligible class would allow the user to retain the Grim versitility while adding new options.

Ok, gotcha, that's what I thought you meant.

Again, I don't necessarily think you want to convert every possible class ability into a talent tree. Just speaking generally, some abilities are only "balanced" within the context of the prestige class in question. There are even some core class abilities that I think are a little iffy when pulled out of context from the rest of the class (sneak attack would be right up there).

I would look to the kinds of abilities that are "stackable" as the best candidates for converting over to talent trees-- for example, an ability that grants a class a +1 bonus to a certain weapon style every 3 levels.

One-off abilities (for example, let's say the templar's Mettle) are a lot more risky because it's harder to place them in context and balance them out.

In terms of HOHF, that puts me in the position of, most likely, not being able to convert ALL of the class abilities into talents (moreso because, when I design PrCs, I particularly like a scattershot of very different and distinct abilities versus stackable stuff). So, why not just allow the class? Classes are one of those things that are very easy to just plug right into Grim Tales.


Wulf

 

[BryonD]

I think I agree with Joe.

You could list abilities on a page or two with just class, basic or advanced, and prerequistes.
Any ability NOT listed would be assumed to be not appropriate as a talent, in your assessment.
An added benefit would be that you could take HoHF feats and convert them to Talents as was done for Weapon Specialization. By default, any D&D feat could become a GT feat. This way you could clarify which feats you would consider better used as talents instead, simply by listing them on the talent trees.

 

[Stormborn]

Love Grim Tales, and wish I had it a year ago when I started our current campaign, I would have used it instead.

Rather than seeing a lot of conversions of feats and class abilites from existing products, I would be more interested in seeing Era and Genre specific supplements for Grim Tales. An expanision of the 3 eras in the book basically.
Steampunk, Swashbuckling,Arabian Knights, Age of Chivalry, Far East, etc. I know there are lots of books out there right now for those settings, but they make much more sense to me approached as Grim Tales, rather than the infintie number of classes and spells and variants. Feat and Talent trees, spells, and gear for those settings, and others, would be more useful to me.

But, since the issue was brought up...Wulf, do you think the various talent trees from d20 Modern products are more portable than class features from straight d20 sources?

 

[Hammerhead]

I think a magic supplement could be very helpful, especially since spellcasters seem somewhat weak in ordinary Grim Tales (unless I'm understanding things incorrectly?)

Let's say we have a 6th level Smart Hero who has spent all of his Talents becoming a good spellcaster: Savant (Spellcraft), Magic Adept, Magic Adept. He has also found and learned the always useful Fireball spell. He casts the spell, loses some Strength...and does 2d6 points of damage to everyone in the radius, because his caster level is 2. Does that seem right? Why not just throw a grenade?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I think a magic supplement could be very helpful, especially since spellcasters seem somewhat weak in ordinary Grim Tales (unless I'm understanding things incorrectly?)

Only when compared to spellcasters from D&D. When you consider them up against non-spell using characters in the same genre, magic is an obvious boon.

Let's say we have a 6th level Smart Hero who has spent all of his Talents becoming a good spellcaster: Savant (Spellcraft), Magic Adept, Magic Adept. He has also found and learned the always useful Fireball spell. He casts the spell, loses some Strength...and does 2d6 points of damage to everyone in the radius, because his caster level is 2. Does that seem right? Why not just throw a grenade?

Two points: It's been suggested (and I concur) that a spell's effect should always be at least equal to the spell level, if it's higher than caster level. So your fireball does a minimum of 3d6.

Still not better than a grenade, perhaps (though a whole lot bigger...).

But just because fireball isn't the "uber" spell doesn't mean that magic is weak.

Consider the effect of other spells-- spells whose effect (other than duration) is not tied to caster level. I can think of a half-dozen off the top of my head that would have a HUGE impact on a low-magic game: charm person, alter self, invisibility, fly, haste, keen edge, wall of stone/ice/force.


Wulf

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Love Grim Tales, and wish I had it a year ago when I started our current campaign, I would have used it instead.

Thanks! I appreciate it.

But, since the issue was brought up...Wulf, do you think the various talent trees from d20 Modern products are more portable than class features from straight d20 sources?

Generally speaking, yes, I think they're more immediately portable. Doesn't necessarily mean they'll be better or more interesting, though...

 

[BryonD]

Rather than seeing a lot of conversions of feats and class abilites from existing products, I would be more interested in seeing Era and Genre specific supplements for Grim Tales. An expanision of the 3 eras in the book basically.

Oh, I agree with that 100%. I did not mean I wanted conversion specific products.
Just that some quick conversion notes in other products would be cool.

I only want everything.