Great Cleave or Whirlwind Attack vs. Mirror Image

[Skinwalker]

Please help settle an issue for my gaming group.

Relevant portions of Mirror Image (PHB, p. 229):
"The figments stay near you and disappear when struck."
"Enemies attempting to attack you or cast spells at you must select from among indistinguishable targets."
"Any successful attack roll against a figment destroys it. A figment's AC is 10 + size modifier + Dex modifer."

Should an attacker with Great Cleave get a Cleave for every image that is destroyed?

Should an attacker with Whirlwind Attack get an attack against every image and the caster (at least, all of those that are in range)?

Feedback welcome.

 

[bret]

Should an attacker with Great Cleave get a Cleave for every image that is destroyed?

No. You destroyed a figment, you did not drop an opponent.

Should an attacker with Whirlwind Attack get an attack against every image and the caster (at least, all of those that are in range)?

Feedback welcome.

Yes, Whirlwind will work within it's limits.

Whirlwind allows you to attack everything within 5' of you. Provided all the images and/or the caster is withn 5', you can attack them.

Note that it is possible for images to be spaced out enough that you wouldn't get an attack on all of them.

 

[kreynolds]

Should an attacker with Great Cleave get a Cleave for every image that is destroyed?

From a Sage reply...

I have a question about the Cleave feat. Does it only work on animate enemies? Does it have its effect when I break an inanimate objects, or destroy a spell effect (e.g. Bigby's Interposing Hand)?

An inanimate object is not a "foe" and breaking such an object doesn't trigger a cleave. A creature-simulating, or creature-like spell like mirror image or Bigby's hand is a "foe."

Say I attack a wizard who has Mirror Image active. If I disrupt one of his images, does my Cleave feat allow a second attack?

See previous answer.

...of which I agree.

Should an attacker with Whirlwind Attack get an attack against every image and the caster (at least, all of those that are in range)?

I could see an argument both for and against.

 

[Murrdox]

Re: Re: Great Cleave or Whirlwind Attack vs. Mirror Image

I could see an argument both for and against.

As could I....

Either you get to make an attack against ALL the images, or you only get ONE attack from your whirlwind, and you still have to decide which image to direct your attack towards.

I think the key issue here is whether or not the images all count as separate targets or not.

A) If the Images are NOT all separate targets, then you have ONE target, with 1d4+1 per level SUB-Targets - of which you must choose one when you direct your attack towards the MAIN target. Only one of the sub-targets is actually the wizard. In this case, you get ONE whirlwind attack at the main target, and you must decide which sub-target to direct the attack at.

B) On the other hand, if the images ARE separate targets, then as long as they are all within 5' of you, you can take an attack against each one.


I would rule B. I allow my players to split the missles of a magic missle spell to attack different images of a Mirror Image (Okay, I have 3 missles, and I see 5 wizards... I send my magic missles at Image #1, #2, and #3), which means each image is a target. As quoted before, the images count as "foes" and this would seem to indicate that they do count as targets, since you can cleave off them.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Great Cleave or Whirlwind Attack vs. Mirror Image

B) On the other hand, if the images ARE separate targets, then as long as they are all within 5' of you, you can take an attack against each one.


I would rule B. I allow my players to split the missles of a magic missle spell to attack different images of a Mirror Image (Okay, I have 3 missles, and I see 5 wizards... I send my magic missles at Image #1, #2, and #3), which means each image is a target. As quoted before, the images count as "foes" and this would seem to indicate that they do count as targets, since you can cleave off them.

I think I'd go with B as well.

 

[gfunk]

I have a question about the Cleave feat. Does it only work on animate enemies? Does it have its effect when I break an inanimate objects, or destroy a spell effect (e.g. Bigby's Interposing Hand)?

An inanimate object is not a "foe" and breaking such an object doesn't trigger a cleave. A creature-simulating, or creature-like spell like mirror image or Bigby's hand is a "foe."

Uh oh.

Does this mean if I cast Silent Image and create an illusion of a bunch of snails next to the tank fighter. . .

 

[Hypersmurf]

Silent Image allows you to create an illusion of "an object, creature, or force".

So you can make one snail appear next to the fighter.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sayyy...

What about a Fighter with WWA, Great Cleave, and a Ring of Spell Storing containing Mirror Image?

He casts Mirror Image on himself, and then uses the Bucket o' Snails trick by Whirlwinding his own Mirror Images and Cleaving into the BBEG.

Since every figment must be within 5' of the caster or one other figment, every time he destroys one, the others must fill the gap... so there's always one within 5' of him until they're all gone.

Obviously you'd have to Maximize or multiply-Empower the spell to have it be any good... since on average a CL3 Mirror Image yields only 3.5 figments...

-Hyp.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Before you go completely 'I have a smack for you', remember that you still cannot cleave of spell effects.

EDIT: Because they are not 'a creature'.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Before you go completely 'I have a smack for you', remember that you still cannot cleave of spell effects.

EDIT: Because they are not 'a creature'.

According to the Sage quote above, you can, because a "creature-simulating effect" qualifies as a "foe".

Now, my position on Mirror Image is long-established - because a figment isn't a creature, I don't even allow it to be targetted with a Magic Missile.

But if you accept the Sage's ruling, you can Cleave off a Mirror Image.

-Hyp.