Good Uses for Sleight of Hand?

[moritheil]

I'm playing a druid with 204 skill points, and I maxed out my ranks in sleight of hand for the heck of it. (Able Learner, and I had it as a class skill at one point.)

At 20th level, what can I reliably accomplish with this? I already have the skilltrick that lets me secretly spellcast once per fight. I know I can steal unsecured items, but at 20th level I doubt I'm going to encounter enemies dumb enough to not secure spell components, wands, and other important items.

Also, what do I need to make use of it? Is this useless without a maxed-out move silently and hide/invis?

 

[Zulgyan]

I made up this houserule... could be a good use.

LONG TERM PICK-POQUETING
Basics: Each week spent pickpocketing, the rogue rolls a Sleight of Hand Check vs. a sort of "comunity" Spot Check. If the Sleight of Hand check beats the Spot check, then the Rogue makes money as per the Profession skill (1/2 roll in gp); if the Rogue's check wins by 5-9, he or she earns 3/4 roll in gp. If 10+ he earn roll in gp.
If a rogue spends less time, say 5 o 2 days pickpoqueting, simply divide result by 7 and the multiply the result by the number of days spent on activity.


Sleight of Hand Modifiers:
Thorp -3
Hamlet -2
Village -1
Small Town +0
Large Town +3
Small City +6
Large City +9
Metropolis +12

Note: bigger cities favour hiding and escaping from authorities and also provide more wealth

Synergies
5 ranks in Move Silently give you +2.
5 ranks in gather info give you +2.


Spot Modifiers:
The DM must determine guard-density and zealousness in law-enforcing.

Near to 0 Guard +2
Lightly Guarded +4
Normal Guarded +8
Heavely Guarded +12 or more.
Special Varieble to DM appreciations

Special: A gather information or Knowledge Local check against a DC of 15 or 20 (your choise) lets the PC know the spot modifier will be facing. He learns about guard-shift time, less controlled areas, which are the best escape routes, guard routine, etc. This check represents prior info gathering to decide if the rougue takes the risk or not.



Failure: If the Spot check equals or exceeds the Sleight of Hand check, assume the Rogue is caught on one or two days but escapes, making no profit on those days but still getting some valuables on other days of that week. This would probably mean he or she gets half the normal amount from the Sleight of Hand check. If the Spot check beats it by 1-4 points, say the Rogue gets caught several times and narrowly escapes, making only a little money (one-fifth or so of the normal amount for his skill check). If the Spot check beats his or her Sleight of Hand check by 5 or more points, say he's caught at some point during the week and thrown in jail (or stocks/pillories, or an empty well/pit, or a dungeon, or whatever the locals use for keeping captured criminals out of trouble).

How your town's authorities deal with thieves is up to you; in some places they may chop the thief's hands off, or just a few fingers; in other places, they may confiscate all of the thief's money, gems, jewelry, and precious stones, then set him or her free after a few days in the jail/stocks/whatever; and in other places, thieves may be punished by being publically abused, humiliated, and left to suffer for a few days or weeks with little food and little water, until finally set free; all of the thief's possessions might be confiscated by the authorities to repay the victims or pay the salaries of the town guards, or just some of the thief's money may be confiscated to be returned to the victims and pay for the bit of food, drink, and time spent by guards in keeping the thief alive and imprisoned until his or her release.


Continued Activity: Each week of continued "activity" the Spot Modifier increases +2, becuase guards are more wary, people are more prudent and the PC starts to gain certain infamy.
A rogue that stops activity can reduce those bonuses at -2 per week of non-activity and low-profile.
Bonuses may not increase higher than community modifier, but can always increase to at least +2. This are just guidelines and criteria could vary from town to town given the cirances. Maybe the community hires mercenaries or adventurers to hunt the thief down thus increasing the spot bonus check.

While Spot Modifier beacause of "continued activity" is still positive, authorities are still looking for the thieve no matter he stoped stealing. This reflects the communities determination to bring him to justice. They continue looking for the thief until thier spot bonus because of continued activity goes back to zero, each week with a -2 reducing the spot check because of innactivity. This represents that new problems arise for authorities, or that they think that the thief is finnaly gone, etc., so they search with less dedication.
DM may have autorities abort search at anytime if he so wishes.

Against this spot checks, the PC rolls an opposed hide, bluff, or disguise (the PC chooses).

Escaping Imprisonment: If a character is in jail and wants to escape, you set a DC in acordance to what think is the security level of the jail. Once you got the DC you can have the PC roll a number of abstract checks at your choice. This can be escape artists checks, bluff, open locks, move silenty, BAB (to represent a short combat), disguise, etc. Keep it abstract and simple.
If PC fails any of your requirements, he is caught escaping and will be subject to the normal punishment, or worse.

 

[moritheil]

That sounds really interesting! Unfortunately, as I am not the DM this time around, I don't know that this is quite what I'm looking for. Does anyone have existing meaningful uses for Sleight of Hand at 20th level, under the RAW?

Also, a druid with 9th level spells would probably make more money healing people and reattaching limbs than pickpocketing. :\

 

[Allegro]

You could rob from the rich and give it to the trees. Or imagine the look on the fighters face when her shiny sword is replaced by a nice solid wooden practice sword. Plus helping yourself to the extra treasure that you deserve.

 

[Notmousse]

There's always hiding small objects such as light weapons. If you've twinked the skill out (DC 50) you could take sheathed weapons from other people and hide them on yourself.

I'm not sure this is entirely RAW, but I've used it in the past to fake peacebonding my weapons, running a shell game (litterally), fix games of chance, and entertain small children (like the perform skill).

 

[moritheil]

To clarify, I'm not sure what the limitations on this statement are:

If you try to take something from another creature, you must make a DC 20 Sleight of Hand check to obtain it. The opponent makes a Spot check to detect the attempt, opposed by the same Sleight of Hand check result you achieved when you tried to grab the item. An opponent who succeeds on this check notices the attempt, regardless of whether you got the item.

I don't think most DMs would let me do this in place of disarming someone . . . so no wielded weapons. But what about everything else? Can I lift metamagic rods and spell pouches and (assuming they don't spot me) leave the enemy thinking they still have them? Can I steal the tiny McGuffin of World-Shaking Power while the BBEG is cackling madly? What else do I need to succeed on this, realistically, at 20th level? How much of a bonus to Move Silently? Should I be able to do this while wildshaped?

There's always hiding small objects such as light weapons. If you've twinked the skill out (DC 50) you could take sheathed weapons from other people and hide them on yourself.

Oooh. Sadly, I'm only at around +25.

I'm not sure this is entirely RAW, but I've used it in the past to fake peacebonding my weapons, running a shell game (litterally), fix games of chance, and entertain small children (like the perform skill).

Looks RAW to me.

You can also use Sleight of Hand to entertain an audience as though you were using the Perform skill.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

My favorite use of Sleight of Hand is juggling. I'd say hiding weapons on my body, but then you'd want to find them.

 

[moritheil]

Between that and tumbling with a bear companion, he could certainly be a circus act . . . though I think that violates the "deep respect for the majesty of nature" clause.

 

[Whimsical]

I have a good one. You know how you need to touch someone using disguise self or a hat of disguise before you can make a will save against the illusion, right? Well, the sleight of hand skill lets you do it without being noticed. Which can be important if you are interacting with someone in a superior social position.

You can pick pocket in reverse. Plant false evidence on someone. Plant a cursed item or listening coin or a fireseed.

As for high level use, keep in mind that if don't have to roll to make DC 20, you never fail to take what you want!

 

[moritheil]

I have a good one. You know how you need to touch someone using disguise self or a hat of disguise before you can make a will save against the illusion, right? Well, the sleight of hand skill lets you do it without being noticed. Which can be important if you are interacting with someone in a superior social position.

You can pick pocket in reverse. Plant false evidence on someone. Plant a cursed item or listening coin or a fireseed.

As for high level use, keep in mind that if don't have to roll to make DC 20, you never fail to take what you want!

Oooh, very nice catch on the touching things. I suppose I could also poison someone without them realizing I touched them.

Planting a cursed item is something I thought of earlier, but normally cursed items are hard to let go, which is the problem. Planting a packet of fireseeds is just comical.