Golems With Reduced Size

[Angel Tarragon]

Say I want to create a medium size iron golem. What part of the stats do I change? And would it cost less to produce it?

 

[Infiniti2000]

If you are the player, ask the DM. If you are the DM, then there are no rules to regress a monster. You could, perhaps, just reverse the size-increasing bonuses (see the Improving Monsters section), which would cause a -1 on CR. I guess it would weigh a lot less, but the cost seems dependent on the rare items and magic, not on the iron so I wouldn't let it be reduced in price. If you want to maintain the same CR, you could add 4HD.

 

[TYPO5478]

My first reaction was, "The earth elemental that is bound to a golem chassis is too large to fit in a structure as small as a medium creature."

But the question still intrigued me, so if you insist...

Iron Golem
Size/Type: Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 12d10+20 (86 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 25 (-1 Dex, +16 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 25
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+15
Attack: Slam +15 melee (1d12+6)
Full Attack: 2 slams +15 melee (1d12+6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapon (Fort DC 17)
Special Qualities: Construct traits, damage reduction 10/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +4
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 9, Con Ø, Int Ø, Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills: —
Feats: —
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary or gang (2-4)
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 12-17 HD (Medium); 18-24 HD (Large); 25-54 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —

Medium iron golem stands 7 feet tall and weighs 1,500 lbs. Breath weapon does 1d3 Con initial damage, 2d4 Con secondary damage. Price 95,000 gp; Cost 50,000 gp + 3,500 XP.

Tweaking, anyone?

 

[Particle_Man]

I think Dungeonscapes has a "Reduced" template, doesn't it?

I was tired and thought this thread was about reducing the size of *goblins*. An interesting thought...

 

[Goldmoon]

Golems of unusual size? I don't think they exist.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

If you are the player, ask the DM. If you are the DM, then there are no rules to regress a monster. You could, perhaps, just reverse the size-increasing bonuses (see the Improving Monsters section), which would cause a -1 on CR. I guess it would weigh a lot less, but the cost seems dependent on the rare items and magic, not on the iron so I wouldn't let it be reduced in price. If you want to maintain the same CR, you could add 4HD.

In this case, I am the GM.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Angel Tarragon]

[sblock=Medium Iron Golem by TYPO5478]Iron Golem
Size/Type: Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 12d10+20 (86 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 25 (-1 Dex, +16 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 25
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+15
Attack: Slam +15 melee (1d12+6)
Full Attack: 2 slams +15 melee (1d12+6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapon (Fort DC 17)
Special Qualities: Construct traits, damage reduction 10/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +4
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 9, Con Ø, Int Ø, Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills: —
Feats: —
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary or gang (2-4)
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 12-17 HD (Medium); 18-24 HD (Large); 25-54 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —

Medium iron golem stands 7 feet tall and weighs 1,500 lbs. Breath weapon does 1d3 Con initial damage, 2d4 Con secondary damage. Price 95,000 gp; Cost 50,000 gp + 3,500 XP.[/sblock]
Thanks. That is definetely a good starting point.

 

[evilbob]

I think it would be a pretty simple thing to apply the rules for increasing monster size in reverse for a golem. The only main thing to note is that a golem has no Con score and gains bonus HP based on its size, so it would probably lose a flat 10 HP going from large to medium.

Other than that, you have to ask yourself if you're going to reduce the hit dice as well; typically, something should be under 8 HD if it is medium.

And after that it's all about the price. Gaining a size technically increases the cost by 50,000, and every additional HD costs 5000. Going in reverse should probably not take the full amount away, but something similar is a good starting point.

I haven't checked the math or anything, but I'm sure TYPO's example is a good one.

 

[TYPO5478]

I think it would be a pretty simple thing to apply the rules for increasing monster size in reverse for a golem.

That's basically what I did.

The only main thing to note is that a golem has no Con score and gains bonus HP based on its size, so it would probably lose a flat 10 HP going from large to medium.

Other than that, you have to ask yourself if you're going to reduce the hit dice as well; typically, something should be under 8 HD if it is medium.

I decided that the 18 HD in the SRD entry was the minimum for a Large-sized iron golem; also decided that the 6 or 7 HD range for Large size seemed about right, so Mr. Medium got a HD range of 12-17. And yes, he did lose the 10 hit points for dropping a size category (along with a bunch of Strength).

And after that it's all about the price. Gaining a size technically increases the cost by 50,000, and every additional HD costs 5000. Going in reverse should probably not take the full amount away, but something similar is a good starting point.

I figured that 5,000 gp per HD was about right (because, I mean, why not?), but the size cost difference was only 25,000 instead of 50,000; going from Medium to Large just isn't as expensive as going from Large to Huge.

I haven't checked the math or anything, but I'm sure TYPO's example is a good one.

Thanks, dude! To be honest, the only thing I wasn't sure about was the CR. Following the monster improvement guidelines in reverse would have put it at 11, but looking at his stats, that seemed a bit high (I could definitely see a 4-character party of level 11 characters making short work of him). So I bumped the save DC on his breath weapon up a touch (originally had it at 16) and called him a CR 9.

 

[TheGogmagog]

So how much for a dimutive iron golem?
I've always wanted one to stand guard at night: damage reduction 10/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, and no need to sleep.