D&D 5E Gloomstalker ambush ruling question

[Sacrosanct]

Text:
You add your WIS modifier (+2) to initiative rolls. At the start of your first turn of each combat, your walking speed increases by 10 ft., which lasts until the end of that turn. If you take the Attack action, you can make one additional weapon attack that deals an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon’s damage type on hit.
Dread Ambusher: (No Action)

Scenario: orc in watchtower. PC is stealthy and hasn’t been detected, so combat hasn’t started, and no initiative has been rolled yet. PC wants to take a shot at orc. Does dread ambusher apply? Or does it only apply after official combat starts?

PC wants to go around the perimeter, picking off orcs using dread ambusher, and wonders that if he can kill an orc in one shot, it goes unnoticed, and combat doesn’t really start until orcs realize they have an enemy.

 

[Fenris-77]

Those Orcs would be surprised, which means they don't do squat on the first turn of combat. The GS gets his goodies on the first round of combat, which we've seen is indeed the surprise round. So yeah, I'd let him go ahead. It seems to be very much what the subclass is designed to do anyway.

Combat starts with determining surprise, not rolling initiative. PHB 189, box text

 

[Sacrosanct]

So if combat officially starts, when does it end? GS attacks which means combat starts, but kills orc before it can react. Does that mean combat ends right there, if none of the other orcs detect the attack, and the GS can get dread ambush again on the next orc? And the next, as long as none of the orcs detect him and assuming none survive the initial attack?

I guess looking at the rules, the question is, who are the combatants. Only the GS and the orc in the tower, or also the orcs in the other towers? Because if it’s all orcs, then dread ambusher only applies once. In which case, I’m sure the player will say after killing the first, “I disengage since I’m undetected until combat ends and I can do it again to the next orc”

 

[Sacrosanct]

Those Orcs would be surprised, which means they don't do squat on the first turn of combat. The GS gets his goodies on the first round of combat, which we've seen is indeed the surprise round. So yeah, I'd let him go ahead. It seems to be very much what the subclass is designed to do anyway.

Combat starts with determining surprise, not rolling initiative. PHB 189, box text

Looking at the rules, surprise is determined and initiative is rolled before anyone can act. Thus the question. So if the DM rules that all orcs are included in initiative, dread ambusher only applies to the first, even if none of the other orcs are aware of the attack. You’d have to start an entire new combat encounter

 

[LordEntrails]

If no one notices the first orc, then combat is over and the GS can do it again on the next orc. Besides, if no one noticed, he could wait 30 seconds or whatever until doing the next one.

To me, that's cool and fun. Go with the Rule of Cool

 

[Salthorae]

As soon as that player moves to attack initiative is rolled.

But yeah, so long as other orcs aren't noticing? Dread Ambush away!

 

[Sacrosanct]

If no one notices the first orc, then combat is over and the GS can do it again on the next orc. Besides, if no one noticed, he could wait 30 seconds or whatever until doing the next one.

To me, that's cool and fun. Go with the Rule of Cool

That’s my interpretation as well, for the same reason. Even if you included all orcs, the player will just say, “I leave until combat ends then”. I get worries about being OP, but it’s not something that happens all that often, and it IS the subclass theme

 

[Lidgar]

Yeah, you're good.

1. Player is not perceived by orc - orc is surprised.
2. Player declares intention to attack surprised orc.
3. Both side roll initiative.
4. If player wins, orc(s) can't do a darn thing. Player can attack. Then:
a. Player kills orc. Roll perception check for surviving orcs. If they fail to notice, combat ends, and player can repeat with next orc.
b. Orc survives. It screams, alerts other orcs.
5. If orc wins the initiative, it can react during the first round, if it has a reaction. Otherwise, same process as above.

Rinse, repeat.

 

[Esker]

Yup, I agree with the general consensus here. I'd have the ranger reroll stealth in between each use though, since if each orc is part of a separate "combat zone", you'd need to determine surprise each time.

 

[Horwath]

Yup, I agree with the general consensus here. I'd have the ranger reroll stealth in between each use though, since if each orc is part of a separate "combat zone", you'd need to determine surprise each time.

This. Even if orc hear the battle and rush, but just see the corpse when they arrive, I would count them as surprised if Ranger attacks them and they failed their perception vs his stealth.