D&D 5E Gloom stalker dead ambusher questions

[auburn2]

The Gloom Stalker description states "at the start of your first turn of each combat ...... if you take the attack action on this turn you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. If that weapon attack hits the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon's damage type"

So the way I read this is it is additional 1d8 plus the weapons normal damage. So if I am using a short sword it is 1d6 + 1d8 + ability bonus if the "extra attack" hits.

Assuming this is true do I have to specify which attack is the "extra attack" before I roll my hit roll, or does it have to be the last attack rolled or can I choose after my attack roll (like I could with sneak attack). In another words if 5th Ranger Rick goes in and swings at a foe and hits can I say that is my extra attack and take the d8 if it misses try again on the next attack.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Campbell]

My reading is that you do have to specify the dread ambusher attack. We have a Gloom Stalker and they always just make it the last attack of the attack action (their fourth since multiclass fighter).

 

[DND_Reborn]

My reading is it cannot be the first attack. The reasoning is until you make an attack using the attack action, you have not fulfilled the requirement of taking the attack action. If you have only one attack, the "additional weapon attack" would be second (or last).

If you have Extra Attack, you could take the "additional weapon attack" second or later as you choose, but it would have to be declared to be the "additional weapon attack" to benefit from the bonus d8 damage before the attack roll is made.

Without Extra Attack class feature: Attack, "additional" attack.

With Extra Attack class feature: Attack, "additional" attack, attack OR Attack, attack, "additional" attack.

Your choice when to declare it. But it isn't like sneak attack or smite, where you can apply it after the hit. That is my reading anyway.

 

[Flamestrike]

My reading is it cannot be the first attack. The reasoning is until you make an attack using the attack action, you have not fulfilled the requirement of taking the attack action.

No, you take the extra attack as part of the Attack action. It's different from Bonus action triggers (Shield master) that require the Action to be taken first.

You take the Attack action, and make your attack(s) as part of that action. Any of those attacks (your choice) can be the Gloom Stalker free attack, and it gets the +1d8.

You do seem to have to declare which attack it's going to be though. The damage only applies to the free attack, so you need to declare which attack (in your attack action) that attack is.

Works with action surge [Attack/Attack] (if you MC Fighter) to get you 2 extra attacks (one for each Attack action).

 

[DND_Reborn]

No, you take the extra attack as part of the Attack action. It's different from Bonus action triggers (Shield master) that require the Action to be taken first.

Until you take the attack action by making an attack, you don't gain the additional attack offered by Gloom Stalker--and then it becomes part of the attack action. I know it isn't a bonus action, like Shield Master, but IMO it works similarly.

As I said in the post:

That is my reading anyway.

 

[Flamestrike]

Until you take the attack action by making an attack, you don't gain the additional attack offered by Gloom Stalker--and then it becomes part of the attack action. I know it isn't a bonus action, like Shield Master, but IMO it works similarly.

No, it doesnt work the same. Its worded differently.

Your attack happens when you take the Attack action, during that Action. Nothing in the Attack action states the action begins when you roll a dice. It begins when you declare it begins ('I attack the Ogre using my shortsword using the Attack action').

Shield Masters bonus action triggers when you take the Attack action. So you need to take that action first (and make your attacks with that action) before you can use Shield master.

One triggers after taking the action. The other triggers at an unspecified time during it.

Nothing in the Attack action states it only starts when you make an attack when using the action (it's actually the other way round - you declare the action, then you attack as part of the action), the Attack action starts when you declare the Attack action (and you can then instantly make your GS attack at that point).

If you drop your foe with that free G/S attack, you've still taken the Attack action. The free attack was simply part of that action.

 

[DND_Reborn]

No, it doesnt work the same. Its worded differently.

Oi... First, this is your interpretation, so saying things like "No" is pretty annoying.

Anyway... 5E doesn't have declarations, so until you actually do something involved in the action, you haven't taken it yet IMO.

Feel free to rule differently, of course, but again that is my take on it. Please stop trying to convince me otherwise. If you want to address the general discussion, please stop quoting me. Thank you.

For the general discussion, it isn't worded different:

Please note, they both begin with "If you take the Attack action on that [your] turn,..." The only difference, is one is "free" as part of the same (Attack) action and the other requires your Bonus action. shrug

The difference is, RAW, with Shield Master you must finish the Attack Action before you can use your bonus action. But, many tables, and even JC agrees, that taking an attack is sufficient to satisfy the condition of taking the Attack action.

Otherwise, rule as you please.

 

[Flamestrike]

Oi... First, this is your interpretation, so saying things like "No" is pretty annoying.

Anyway... 5E doesn't have declarations, so until you actually do something involved in the action, you haven't taken it yet IMO.

Feel free to rule differently, of course, but again that is my take on it. Please stop trying to convince me otherwise. If you want to address the general discussion, please stop quoting me. Thank you.

For the general discussion, it isn't worded different:

View attachment 130981
View attachment 130982
Please note, they both begin with "If you take the Attack action on that [your] turn,..." The only difference, is one is "free" as part of the same (Attack) action and the other requires your Bonus action. shrug

The difference is, RAW, with Shield Master you must finish the Attack Action before you can use your bonus action. But, many tables, and even JC agrees, that taking an attack is sufficient to satisfy the condition of taking the Attack action.

Otherwise, rule as you please.

You're omitting the important part in your highlighted text.

Dread Ambushers free attack expressly happens during the action and as part of it.

Shield master does not all allow the Shield shove to be made as part of the Attack action. You take the Attack action [make your attacks], finish that Action, and then Bonus action shove.

You're saying the Attack action only starts when you make an attack. I disagree. That's putting the cart before the horse. It actually works the other way around - your attacks come after you start the Attack action.

The Attack action starts when you declare it. So you declare the Attack action. As youre now taking the Attack action you can make an extra attack as part of that action (thanks to Dread Ambusher). There is no limiter as to when [during that action] you can make that attack, so you can make your first attack the special extra attack if you want to.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

My reading is that you do have to specify the dread ambusher attack. We have a Gloom Stalker and they always just make it the last attack of the attack action (their fourth since multiclass fighter).

That's what I always did as well. It's good to do it with the last one because you are going to want to remind people at the table why you are getting this additional attack anyway, and it's good to be consistent so that if you remember during the next person's turn that you forgot the extra d8 you know which attack it was attached to.

 

[Iry]

I'm with @Flamestrike on this one. You can't make an attack until you have declared the Attack Action. It's just a courtesy and benefit to smooth play that we let people take those declared actions back if they haven't done anything yet. Very Magic: the Gathering-esque.