Glamered armour question

[LostSoul]

One of the players in my game has a question about the Glamered armour property.

Glamered: A suit of armor with this ability appears normal. Upon command, the armor changes shape and form to assume the appearance of a normal set of clothing. The armor retains all its properties (including weight) when glamered. Only a true seeing spell or similar magic reveals the true nature of the armor when disguised.
Moderate illusion; CL 10th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, disguise self; Price +2,700 gp.​

His idea is that the magic physically changes the "shape and form" of the armour - so it could fit different sized or shaped creatures (e.g. non-humanoids).

What say you?

 

[Dozen]

It can't so much change the size as could make it look like it's larger. Glamers are illusions, not transmutations. A glamered halfing-sized armor won't fit on a troll no matter how hard you tried.

There are enchantments for size-changing weapons and shield though, it wouldn't be hard to homebrew one for armor, had you wanted to.

 

[Jimlock]

I think you are confusing two different things.

First off, magical items are supposed to fit the user.

This means, that the same set of Glamered armor can be worn by a Human, a Gnome, a Troll, a Thri Kreen...or whatever have you. Each time, the magical armor adjusts to the size of the one wearing it. That goes for all magical items that can be worn.

As for the Glammored armor itself and its abilities, it's text is pretty explicit:

the armor changes shape and form to assume the appearance of a normal set of clothing

It changes to fit the wearer.
1)If worn by a human -> the "Human shaped/sized" Glamered armor changes into a set of "Human CLothes".
2)If worn by a Gnome -> the "Gnome shaped/sized" Glamered armor changes into a set of "Gnome CLothes".

Another thing of importance here: Glamers are IMMATERIAL. They are simple holograms made to fool the eye, so the magic does not "change the shape and form of anything". The armor stays as is, but is covered by a hologram that makes it look like clothes.

 

[Greenfield]

It changes shape and form to assume the appearance of normal clothing.

And the base spell is Disguise Self, not Alter Self. It keeps its weight and all properties.

It's an illusion, not a shape change.

 

[LostSoul]

Here is the argument put forth by the player who wants to use this armour:

By way of arguing semantics/sentence structure:

The action or mechanics of the magic in the armour described is:

‘Upon command, the armor changes shape and form’

The purpose for this is:

‘to assume the appearance of a normal set of clothing.’

So arguably a large sized armour could appear as a baggy set of clothes.

The ass end of the sentence clarifies what the action of the magic is intended to achieve, not how it achieves it (which is the first half of the sentence). You could maybe argue that it’s bad grammer on part of the writer if the school of magic they’ve applied to the armour doesn’t fit with your sensibilities; if that’s the case, why not just re-name the armour’s special ability and ascribe it to a different school of magic?​

Another question: how much would a suite of armour like that cost? +3, like Wild armour, or another amount?

 

[Sekhmet]

[MENTION=81242]Lost Soul[/MENTION] Glamered adds 2,700GP to the cost of the armor, no matter what bonus it may or may not have prior to adding it.
The word for "semantics/sentence structure" is "syntax".
The Glamered property is an illusion based on the spell Disguise Self. True Seeing or similar magic reveals the true nature of the armor, therefor it does not physically change.

 

[Dozen]

Another question: how much would a suite of armour like that cost? +3, like Wild armour, or another amount?

A continuous Alter Self effect would cost either a +2 Bonus or 18.000 gold at the lowest caster level, as per the DMG. By virtue of A. S. being a proud member of the polymorph subschool however, a +3 Bonus cost or some extra gold cost might be reasonable...

 

[Jackinthegreen]

[MENTION=6674931]Jimlock[/MENTION]:

Magic armor specifically doesn't change size, so a set made for a medium creature wouldn't couldn't be worn by a troll unless that troll was medium too.

 

[LostSoul]

Thanks guys.

Those were the reasons behind my ruling - it's just an illusion - so we'll see how it goes when I talk to him.