dreaded_beast
First Post
Can anyone tell me if there is info, canon or otherwise, about the dwarven kingdom/hold that is beneath the Lost Peaks in the High Forest?
[Forgotten Realms] Info on Dwarven Kingdom Under Lost Peaks?
- Thread starter dreaded_beast
- Start date
EricNoah
Adventurer
Well, let's see... from "Dwarves Deep" (1990), we know about...
Besilmer, a realm whose name and history is forgotten by most dwarves, though two of its works remain as landmarks known throughout the Sword Coast: the Stone Bridge, and the Halls of the Hunting Axe. In the same entry, the Hall of Four Ghosts is described. This is a bit west and south of where you're looking; the entry says that the realm was founded in the "fertile Dessarin valley" though that could be anywhere along the relatively great length of that river. These dwarves attempted to break into a relatively new area of work, above-ground agriculture, but their kingdom was poorly defended and when their ruler was slain in single combat, these dwarves were driven south to join the doomed Fallen Kingdom.
My FR Atlas CD-ROM notes the following locations on or around the Lost Peaks -- maybe these names will help you in your research:
Fountains of Memory (on the westernmost peak from what I can see)
Morndinvuddrrin (this looks like the right location for "a long-forgotten dwarfhold [that] lies under the easternmost of the Lost Peaks" as mentioned in Silver Marchs on p. 28.)
Dancing Falls (where the river comes out of the mountains, it looks to me)
Downriver just a bit, on the edge of the forest is Noanar's Hold (Silver Marches p. 29).
Besilmer, a realm whose name and history is forgotten by most dwarves, though two of its works remain as landmarks known throughout the Sword Coast: the Stone Bridge, and the Halls of the Hunting Axe. In the same entry, the Hall of Four Ghosts is described. This is a bit west and south of where you're looking; the entry says that the realm was founded in the "fertile Dessarin valley" though that could be anywhere along the relatively great length of that river. These dwarves attempted to break into a relatively new area of work, above-ground agriculture, but their kingdom was poorly defended and when their ruler was slain in single combat, these dwarves were driven south to join the doomed Fallen Kingdom.
My FR Atlas CD-ROM notes the following locations on or around the Lost Peaks -- maybe these names will help you in your research:
Fountains of Memory (on the westernmost peak from what I can see)
Morndinvuddrrin (this looks like the right location for "a long-forgotten dwarfhold [that] lies under the easternmost of the Lost Peaks" as mentioned in Silver Marchs on p. 28.)
Dancing Falls (where the river comes out of the mountains, it looks to me)
Downriver just a bit, on the edge of the forest is Noanar's Hold (Silver Marches p. 29).
EricNoah
Adventurer
Oh, yeah, and you might want to download The North (free PDF file): http://www.wizards.com/forgottenrealms/thenorth.asp
Last edited:
dreaded_beast
First Post
Thanks! I got a good place to start looking now.
Derulbaskul
Adventurer
dreaded beast,
You might also want to check the archives of the FR Mailing List which are located here: http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?S1=realms-l
If you find it particularly interesting, you could also join the list. The instructions are container in the list FAQ: http://www.candlekeep.com/fr_faq.htm
cheers
d
You might also want to check the archives of the FR Mailing List which are located here: http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?S1=realms-l
If you find it particularly interesting, you could also join the list. The instructions are container in the list FAQ: http://www.candlekeep.com/fr_faq.htm
cheers
d
dreaded_beast
First Post
Thanks for the site Derulbaskul! I like it!
On another note, anyone know if the Dwarven Kingdom of Besilmer existed during the time of the Elven Kingdom of Earlann (sp?) (The kingdom that had the citadel that became Hellgate Keep).
I'm trying to come up with a storyline where a Sun Elf clan from this period and in this area, was on good terms with another dwarven clan, and worked together to create a "moonblade". The "moonblade" was completed, but before the exchange could be made, calamity fell upon both nations. (The rise of Hellgate Keep, the Fey'ri, etc.)
On another note, anyone know if the Dwarven Kingdom of Besilmer existed during the time of the Elven Kingdom of Earlann (sp?) (The kingdom that had the citadel that became Hellgate Keep).
I'm trying to come up with a storyline where a Sun Elf clan from this period and in this area, was on good terms with another dwarven clan, and worked together to create a "moonblade". The "moonblade" was completed, but before the exchange could be made, calamity fell upon both nations. (The rise of Hellgate Keep, the Fey'ri, etc.)
EricNoah
Adventurer
Hmmmm....
DR -372 -- Ascalhorn founded by the elves of Eaerlann
DR 523 -- Realm of Phalorm, also called Realm of Three Crowns, and later known to history as the Fallen Kingdom, is established
DR 615 -- Phalorm suffers its legendary fall
DR 882 -- Ascalhorn becomes Hellgate Keep
So, if Besilmer fell apart when their king (Torhild Flametongue) was slain and joined the Fallen Kingdom before it fell, that means Besilmer fell sometime between DR 523 and 615. Besilmer lasted one dwarf's lifetime at most.
DR -372 -- Ascalhorn founded by the elves of Eaerlann
DR 523 -- Realm of Phalorm, also called Realm of Three Crowns, and later known to history as the Fallen Kingdom, is established
DR 615 -- Phalorm suffers its legendary fall
DR 882 -- Ascalhorn becomes Hellgate Keep
So, if Besilmer fell apart when their king (Torhild Flametongue) was slain and joined the Fallen Kingdom before it fell, that means Besilmer fell sometime between DR 523 and 615. Besilmer lasted one dwarf's lifetime at most.
dreaded_beast
First Post
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction guys.
I was able to get access to "Dwarves Deep", so I did a quick persual and found just what I was looking for: the dwarven kingdom of Ammarindar.
This timeline is taken from http://www.o-love.net/realms. According to them, their timeline is from canon material.
DR 880 - First demons summoned at Ascalhorn
DR 882 - Ammarindar overan by humanoids and fiends from Hellgate Keep
DR 1221 - Tunnels dug from Hellgate Keep to abandoned Ammarindar kingdom
DR 1369 - Hellgate Keep falls / Fey'ri released (Races of Faerun)
DR 1372 - Campaign starts
Ammarindar, a weak dwavern nation centered in the Greypeak Mountains fell when Hellgate Keep was created. Ammarindar was known for creating Everbright Admantite armor. The border of the nation was once along the tree edge of the High Forest, which was Eaerlann during this time.
Here is the rough idea I have come up with:
Around DR 880, a small dwarven hold existed within the High Forest, between the Lost Peaks by the Dancing Falls. Ammarindar was on good terms with Eaerlann, which allowed the small dwarven hold to be established. The area of Dancing Falls contained a concentrated pocket of admantite, which the Ammarindar dwarved mined and forged into weapons and armor.
A Sun Elf House, the ancestors of the Fey'ri, commissioned the forging of an adamantite blade by the Ammardindar Dwarves of Dancing Falls. A small group of Sun Elves travelled to Dancing Falls to assist in the creation of the blade, resulting in the creation of a fabled "moonblade". The Sun Elf House had created a moonblade for the leaders of their family and house. However, before the moonblade could be sent to the Sun Elf House, the elven citadel Escalhorn fell.
In DR 882, waves of fiends swept through the High Forest and eventually reached the Dancing Falls, resulting in the slaughter of it's inhabitants. The elven "monblade" was lost in this area. The area was plundered by the fiends, but the fiends were driven back to Hellgate Keep before the "moonblade" was discovered. The "moonblade" lay dormant for nearly 400 years.
The Fey'ri were freed from Hellgate Keep in DR 1369. The Fey'ri seek to consolidate their power by raiding secret magic stores of their Sun Elf ancestors, known only to them. The Fey'ri know of the creation of the "moonblade" and have sent envoys to discover it, hoping to wield it since they are the last "true" scions of the Sun Elf House that orginally created the "moonblade".
The PC for the campaign, suffering from amnesia, does not know she was sent by the Fey'ri to discover the location of the "moonblade". The PC's ancestory leads back to the ancient Sun Elf house, which means she is one of the last true scions of the Sun Elf house. The PC must unlock the secret of her past: discovering that she is in league with the Fey'ri and discover the "moonblade" before the Fey'ri do.
If anyone sees any plot holes or gaps, missing dates, canon history inconsistencies, etc. please let me know. This is still a work in progress.
Should I put this in a new thread?
I was able to get access to "Dwarves Deep", so I did a quick persual and found just what I was looking for: the dwarven kingdom of Ammarindar.
This timeline is taken from http://www.o-love.net/realms. According to them, their timeline is from canon material.
DR 880 - First demons summoned at Ascalhorn
DR 882 - Ammarindar overan by humanoids and fiends from Hellgate Keep
DR 1221 - Tunnels dug from Hellgate Keep to abandoned Ammarindar kingdom
DR 1369 - Hellgate Keep falls / Fey'ri released (Races of Faerun)
DR 1372 - Campaign starts
Ammarindar, a weak dwavern nation centered in the Greypeak Mountains fell when Hellgate Keep was created. Ammarindar was known for creating Everbright Admantite armor. The border of the nation was once along the tree edge of the High Forest, which was Eaerlann during this time.
Here is the rough idea I have come up with:
Around DR 880, a small dwarven hold existed within the High Forest, between the Lost Peaks by the Dancing Falls. Ammarindar was on good terms with Eaerlann, which allowed the small dwarven hold to be established. The area of Dancing Falls contained a concentrated pocket of admantite, which the Ammarindar dwarved mined and forged into weapons and armor.
A Sun Elf House, the ancestors of the Fey'ri, commissioned the forging of an adamantite blade by the Ammardindar Dwarves of Dancing Falls. A small group of Sun Elves travelled to Dancing Falls to assist in the creation of the blade, resulting in the creation of a fabled "moonblade". The Sun Elf House had created a moonblade for the leaders of their family and house. However, before the moonblade could be sent to the Sun Elf House, the elven citadel Escalhorn fell.
In DR 882, waves of fiends swept through the High Forest and eventually reached the Dancing Falls, resulting in the slaughter of it's inhabitants. The elven "monblade" was lost in this area. The area was plundered by the fiends, but the fiends were driven back to Hellgate Keep before the "moonblade" was discovered. The "moonblade" lay dormant for nearly 400 years.
The Fey'ri were freed from Hellgate Keep in DR 1369. The Fey'ri seek to consolidate their power by raiding secret magic stores of their Sun Elf ancestors, known only to them. The Fey'ri know of the creation of the "moonblade" and have sent envoys to discover it, hoping to wield it since they are the last "true" scions of the Sun Elf House that orginally created the "moonblade".
The PC for the campaign, suffering from amnesia, does not know she was sent by the Fey'ri to discover the location of the "moonblade". The PC's ancestory leads back to the ancient Sun Elf house, which means she is one of the last true scions of the Sun Elf house. The PC must unlock the secret of her past: discovering that she is in league with the Fey'ri and discover the "moonblade" before the Fey'ri do.
If anyone sees any plot holes or gaps, missing dates, canon history inconsistencies, etc. please let me know. This is still a work in progress.
Should I put this in a new thread?
CapnZapp
Legend
Picking up this thread again thirteen years later, when Besilmer has popped back up in the D&D conscience (thanks to Princes of the Apocalypse being set in the area)... 
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Besilmer says Besilmer lasted from -4420 DR to -4160 DR, that is, several thousand years from "now", and lasted hundreds of years. (This could still be a single dwarf's lifetime)
My question is: is there a general discussion about reconciling these vastly different timelines. I mean, I don't fuss about a century here or there, but several millenia...?
Whether X happened nearly six thousand years ago, or "merely" twelve centuries ago, can't be simply dismissed as an accounting error, I mean.
This can't be the first such instance, so I'm asking for pointers where this subject is comprehensively covered.
Thanks!
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Besilmer says Besilmer lasted from -4420 DR to -4160 DR, that is, several thousand years from "now", and lasted hundreds of years. (This could still be a single dwarf's lifetime)
My question is: is there a general discussion about reconciling these vastly different timelines. I mean, I don't fuss about a century here or there, but several millenia...?
Whether X happened nearly six thousand years ago, or "merely" twelve centuries ago, can't be simply dismissed as an accounting error, I mean.
This can't be the first such instance, so I'm asking for pointers where this subject is comprehensively covered.
Thanks!
Derulbaskul
Adventurer
Picking up this thread again thirteen years later, when Besilmer has popped back up in the D&D conscience (thanks to Princes of the Apocalypse being set in the area)...
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Besilmer says Besilmer lasted from -4420 DR to -4160 DR, that is, several thousand years from "now", and lasted hundreds of years. (This could still be a single dwarf's lifetime)
My question is: is there a general discussion about reconciling these vastly different timelines. I mean, I don't fuss about a century here or there, but several millenia...?
Whether X happened nearly six thousand years ago, or "merely" twelve centuries ago, can't be simply dismissed as an accounting error, I mean.
This can't be the first such instance, so I'm asking for pointers where this subject is comprehensively covered.
Thanks!
These sorts of disputes are normally hashed out over at Candlekeep. Look for George Krashos (aka Krash); he's the expert on all things dwarven and has Ed's imprimatur.
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