Fire Elementals vs. Quicksand

[MarauderX]

19th level druid summons a huge fire elemental in front of the BBEG. Unbeknownst to him, or anyone in the party, the area in front of the BBEG was quicksand.

A couple facts we looked up at the table:
Fire elementals treat water as a barrier
Fire elemental weight = 5 lb.
Quicksand requires a swim check

I ruled that the elemental would be trapped in the quicksand and would sink slowly. I also ruled that the elemental could take 1 attack per round at it's highest attack bonus. It could take AoOs as normal. Also, any creature near it of the same size would receive higher ground bonus.

Did I make the right call? The quicksand was hidden as a trap for the leap attacking fighter and barbarian/bard, which of course didn't fall for it after the discussion about swimming fire elementals.

 

[Lackhand]

I like most of your decision, but I'm not sure the elemental would sink.

It takes up a 15'x15' square and weighs 5 lbs, after all -- even without getting into physics, it might be fair to say it floats on the water, but still can't cross it.

 

[MarauderX]

I like most of your decision, but I'm not sure the elemental would sink.

It takes up a 15'x15' square and weighs 5 lbs, after all -- even without getting into physics, it might be fair to say it floats on the water, but still can't cross it.

The 225 square foot area for the 5 lb was brought up as well. My counter to that was that the fire elemental had 'legs', was moving, and still had weight. I judged it had sunk 5' into the quicksand (for simplicity), and no further due to bouyancy and the laws of displacement. Surely the weight of the quicksand I had ruled as displaced would be greater, but it would still 'sink' and not move. And besides it brings about the DM's law of "Don't bring physics into my turn-based, magic littered D&D!"

 

[Plane Sailing]

I wouldn't have the fire elemental sink - it's weight is so amazingly low for its size that the pressure on its feet is negligible. It can't cross water, but quicksand is just very wet sand and would easily support its weight.

The situation is analogous to light tanks (like the scorpion tank) which although weighing tonnes can whiz across swamp that bogs down foot soldiers because its weight per square inch of contact is relatively low.

Now, if your fire elemental arrived in stiletto shoes, I might be agreeing with you, but otherwise...

 

[DM_Matt]

Now, if your fire elemental arrived in stiletto shoes, I might be agreeing with you, but otherwise...

Thats hot!

(Seriously, though, yeah, one more vote for too light to sink)

 

[lukelightning]

Remember that a creature's facing isn't it's actual body size.

I think you made a fair call, though I would have said the elemental floated.

 

[moritheil]

You're well within your rights to state that this was very, very wet quicksand, and thus for water-related purposes, the fire elemental couldn't cross it (and thus couldn't go anywhere.)

The sinking strikes me as incredibly strange, though.

 

[lukelightning]

Now that I think of it, I say the elemental should float. It's a matter of density. Fire is WAAAY less dense than water.

 

[Wolfwood2]

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.

If the fire elemental couldn't support itself on the quicksand, the summoning spell should arguably have failed.

 

[durza120]

Doesn't sand turn to glass when super heated? So technically the fire elemental would just walk on the quick sand b/c it turned to glass.

Also, wouldn't the fire evaporate the water, making the quick sand just sand?