Fighting Defensively

[mcgeedis]

Considering the following feats for a dex based Rogue/Fighter, would the following feat chain below make sense and/or even work while fighting defensively with the -2 due to Combat Expertise? The goal is to have high AC and minimal attack penalty with two weapons to hit in efforts to land the Sneak Attacks. This character would tumble to flanking positions for the SA to hit.

Weapon Finesse
Combat Expertise (+2 AC)
Two Weapon Fighting
Two Weapon Defense (+2 AC)
Deadly Defense (+2 AC plus each hand gets extra 1d6!)
Exotic Weapon - Broadblade Short Sword (+4 - one in each hand and finessable)
&
5+ ranks in Tumble (+1)

So, according to the way I am seeing it, the character would gain +11 AC for just taking a -4 to hit (again, Combat Expertise and TWF) to hit. But then again, flanking would add +2 to hit.

Is this correct or am I missing something? :\

Thanks in advance

 

[IcyCool]

Combat Expertise (+2 AC) (Dodge Bonus)
Two Weapon Defense (+2 AC) (Shield bonus, and it is only +1, not +2)
Deadly Defense (+2 AC plus each hand gets extra 1d6!) (What sort of bonus does this give?)
Exotic Weapon - Broadblade Short Sword (+4 - one in each hand and finessable) (Shield bonus, so it doesn't stack with other shield bonuses. That means you'd get the +2 shield bonus from one, no bonus from the other, and no bonus from Two Weapon Defense)
5+ ranks in Tumble (+1) (You only get a bonus to the Fighting Defensively maneuver for 5 or more ranks in Tumble. You don't appear to be figuring that in anywhere here)

(See my bolded comments above)

When you take the Fighting Defensively action, you take a -4 penalty to hit in exchange for a +2 dodge bonus to your AC. If you were to also use Combat Expertise for 2 and had 5+ ranks in Tumble, that would be -6 to hit and a +5 dodge bonus to AC.

 

[Jdvn1]

Deadly Defense (+2 AC plus each hand gets extra 1d6!)

What book is this from?

 

[mcgeedis]

Two Weapon Defense (+2 AC) (Shield bonus, and it is only +1, not +2)

The feat states the bonus increases to +2 if fighting defensively.

What book is this from?

Complete Scoundrel. I don't have it handy, so I am unsure what type of defense bonus it grants.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[IcyCool]

The feat states the bonus increases to +2 if fighting defensively.

Ah yes, I hadn't noticed that. However, your example wasn't using the fighting defensively option. You don't get the +2 bonus for using Combat Expertise, you get it for taking the "Fighting Defensively" standard action (see the combat section of the PHB for details on the action).

So, assuming your example (and assuming that you add fighting defensively and that the Deadly Defense feat grants a stackable bonus) you would have:

Combat Expertise (+2 Dodge bonus)
Two Weapon Defense (+2 Shield bonus to AC)
Deadly Defense (+2 AC plus each hand gets extra 1d6!)
Fighting defensively and 5+ ranks in Tumble (+3 Dodge bonus to AC)

For a total of +9 to AC, and -8 to hit (-4 for fighting defensively, -2 for combat expertise, and -2 for two-weapon combat). You would also only be able to take a single attack.

If you didn't fight defensively, you would have:
Combat Expertise (+2 Dodge bonus)
Two Weapon Defense (+2 Shield bonus)
Deadly Defense (+2 AC)

For a total of +6 to AC, and -4 to hit (-2 for combat expertise, and -2 for two-weapon combat). Here you would be able to make a full attack.

 

[mcgeedis]

Thanks for the insight IcyCool.

Any other thoughts as to how to increase AC with as low a penalty to hit?

 

[Mistwell]

Ah yes, I hadn't noticed that. However, your example wasn't using the fighting defensively option. You don't get the +2 bonus for using Combat Expertise, you get it for taking the "Fighting Defensively" standard action (see the combat section of the PHB for details on the action).

So, assuming your example (and assuming that you add fighting defensively and that the Deadly Defense feat grants a stackable bonus) you would have:

Combat Expertise (+2 Dodge bonus)
Two Weapon Defense (+2 Shield bonus to AC)
Deadly Defense (+2 AC plus each hand gets extra 1d6!)
Fighting defensively and 5+ ranks in Tumble (+3 Dodge bonus to AC)

For a total of +9 to AC, and -8 to hit (-4 for fighting defensively, -2 for combat expertise, and -2 for two-weapon combat). You would also only be able to take a single attack.

But he said he would be flanking, so +2 to hit for that.

 

[Darklone]

Deadly Defense does not increase your AC.

Icycool, fighting defensively does not limit you to standard actions:

Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action

You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a -4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round. See also: Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round Action.

Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round Action

You can choose to fight defensively when taking a full attack action. If you do so, you take a -4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round.

 

[phindar]

Ah yes, I hadn't noticed that. However, your example wasn't using the fighting defensively option. You don't get the +2 bonus for using Combat Expertise, you get it for taking the "Fighting Defensively" standard action (see the combat section of the PHB for details on the action).

But Combat Expertise is Fighting Defensively... its the character getting better at FD, not giving it up to learn something else.

 

[Christian]

But Combat Expertise is Fighting Defensively... its the character getting better at FD, not giving it up to learn something else.

Nope. Look at the last line under 'Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action' on PHB 3.5 pg. 140. The bonus from Combat Expertise and fighting defensively stack; they are, therefore, not the same thing. (On the plus side, your Combat Expertise guy can do both & crank his AC into the stratosphere, at the expense of never hitting anything ever again. )