D&D General Feat Observant

[rubedo2110]

Trying to figure out the +5 Passive Perception and Investigation are they different from the skill perception and investigation? In a game im in the DM and some of the players are telling yes but the other are saying no. So i am trying to fine witch is right. thank you

 

[jeffh]

Read the section "Passive Checks" on page 175 of the Player's Handbook. The bonus applies to passive checks using those two skills.

 

[Mistwell]

Same skill. It's just that "passive" is used when you're not actively using that skill to seek something out. So if something is hiding and you have a passive perception which beats their active stealth check you see them - even if you didn't say you were specifically looking for them.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Trying to figure out the +5 Passive Perception and Investigation are they different from the skill perception and investigation? In a game im in the DM and some of the players are telling yes but the other are saying no. So i am trying to fine witch is right. thank you

They are different, yes, for two reasons.

1. These bonuses only apply to your passive scores, not your active rolls. If you roll a Perception or Investigation check, Observant does nothing (other than increasing your Int or Wis score).
2. These bonuses stack with Proficiency or Expertise, if you have it. So, for example, a 17th-level character with 20 Wisdom, Expertise in Perception, and the Observant feat would have a passive Perception score of 10 (base) + 5 (Wis mod) + 12 (Proficiency, doubled by Expertise) + 5 (Observant) = 32 total. If they made a Perception roll, on the other hand, they would get a total bonus of 5 (Wis mod) + 12 (Prof, doubled by Expertise) = 17.

 

[Mort]

They are different, yes, for two reasons.

1. These bonuses only apply to your passive scores, not your active rolls. If you roll a Perception or Investigation check, Observant does nothing (other than increasing your Int or Wis score).
2. These bonuses stack with Proficiency or Expertise, if you have it. So, for example, a 17th-level character with 20 Wisdom, Expertise in Perception, and the Observant feat would have a passive Perception score of 10 (base) + 5 (Wis mod) + 12 (Proficiency, doubled by Expertise) + 5 (Observant) = 32 total.

No, the mechanism for passive checks is different than for active checks (as you outline) but the SKILLS are the same.

This is important because if you take the skill perception then your proficiency bonus applies regardless of whether it is passive or not. There is no Passive Perception skill - it's just a shortcut for the DM to quickly adjudicate without rolling dice.

Edit: That said, it is confusing, because the feat bonus (+5) only applies to passive checks, which means the PC is often better off not requesting an active one (and he's better off if the DM often uses passive checks to detect stealth and the like, so the feat can be a bit campaign dependent)! Likely the intent was to negate disadvantage on passive checks and/or provide a free level of advantage (though as written it also STACKS with advantage).

 

[rubedo2110]

Ok so from what i read on p.175, the observant feat of+5 is only applies to passive part only. so when the DM ask me to make a Skill check roll, i dont add the +5 to it. Its only added if i dont roll. If that's what i reading right?

 

[rubedo2110]

jeffh, mistwell, ezekielraiden, mort. thank you for all the info you guys shared it help a lot. Thanks again

 

[Shiroiken]

Ok so from what i read on p.175, the observant feat of+5 is only applies to passive part only. so when the DM ask me to make a Skill check roll, i dont add the +5 to it. Its only added if i dont roll. If that's what i reading right?

Correct. In theory the DM should have already performed a passive check before calling for a roll, but I've found some DMs just don't like passive checks and ignore them. I think the primary reason is that the rules aren't explained on how to use them, with the sole exception of perceiving someone hiding. I think the secondary reason is that with expertise and feats like Observant, a character's passive score can get really high.

 

[James Gasik]

Also, Jeremy Crawford adds the following:

"Passive Perception is an option that a DM chooses to use or not. If you use it, Perception checks are typically made only when characters actively search for something, and normally, they're searching because their passive Perception failed to notice something."

Further, he went on to clarify that your Passive Perception (or Investigation) are the "floor" for Perception and Investigation checks; ie, you can't roll Perception or Investigation and do worse than what your passive score is. The scenario goes something like this-

You enter a room and there is a hidden enemy. That enemy's Stealth check beats your passive Perception score. If you suspect there is a hidden enemy and wish to make a Perception check, you can't roll worse than your baseline senses.

 

[Charlaquin]

Of course, what Jeremy Crawford says about passive perception pretty directly contradicts what the PHB says on page 175, that passive checks “represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the GM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.”

Basically, passive checks are poorly named. They’re for when you do something continuously over a period of time, or when the DM wants to resolve a check in secret. Saying they act as a floor for ability checks doesn’t make sense, since ability checks and passive checks are used in different situations, at least according to the rules as written.