Feat: Extend Point Blank Range

[Jeph]

Extend Point Blank Range [General]
You may fire with deadly accuracy at a longer range.
Prerequisites: Point Blank Shot, Far Shot
Benefit: You may make sneak attacks, apply the benefit from Point Blank Shot, and apply other bonusses that normally only apply within 30' at a longer range. This range is either 45 feet, or the first range increment of the weapon that you are using, whichever is greater. For instance, a character with Extend Point Blank Range and a Longbow would be able to make Sneak Attacks out to 100 feet.
Normal: These benefits only apply within 30'.

 

[jlhorner1974]

This seems unbalancing IMHO.

Being able to hang back 110 feet with a composite longbow and get sneak attacks would seem to turn the game into a snipe-fest and make rogue archers extremely powerful. With a good Initiative modifier, it would be too easy (and too safe) to surprise enemies and drop them before the fight gets underway.

I wouldn't have a problem with a feat that makes you concentrate for a full round and get sneak attack damage for one shot if within the weapon's range increment (more in the spirit of sniping).

I think the 30 foot rule is there for a really good reason.

Sneak attacks should only be able to be done up close, so there is some risk to it, otherwise it's too cheap.

 

[Crothian]

So, with farshot, a longow of distance I can sneak attack from 250ft away? Way too strong. Even if you limit it to only the normal range of the weapon, it is too much.

 

[Spatzimaus]

How exactly WOULD you get a sneak attack at range, though, on anything other than the first shot? Your opponent isn't denied his DEX bonus to AC once he acts, and you can't flank with a ranged weapon. You could try something involving invisibility, but then I'd say that since the ARROW isn't invisible, you're not denied your DEX bonus.

Unless you can come up with a consistent way to sneak attack at range, I don't think it's broken.

 

[Crothian]

How exactly WOULD you get a sneak attack at range, though, on anything other than the first shot? Your opponent isn't denied his DEX bonus to AC once he acts, and you can't flank with a ranged weapon. You could try something involving invisibility, but then I'd say that since the ARROW isn't invisible, you're not denied your DEX bonus.

Unless you can come up with a consistent way to sneak attack at range, I don't think it's broken.

Unless the person knows where you are it's a sneak attack. If I attack and hide in the same round I do so at -20 to the hide. WEll, if I'm 100ft away from my target he has -20 to spot me. And the deal with ammo needing to be invisible would be a House Rule.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Eliminating the thirty foot range for PBS, weapon specialization, sneak attack, etc. is asking for trouble.

The thirty foot limit isn't arbitrary or tied to any conception of sense perception or accuracy. Rather, it's the maximum charge distance of an encumbered or heavily armored halfling or dwarf. The limit prevents archers from using their most advantageous damage ratings without subjecting themselves to the risk of melee attack.

Extending the range at all--especially in the dramatic manner envisioned by this feat--dramatically changes the ranged/melee dynamic that is present in D&D 3e.

Don't do it.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Unless the person knows where you are it's a sneak attack. If I attack and hide in the same round I do so at -20 to the hide.

"If people are observing you, even casually, you can't hide". If you just fired at me, I'm going to be observing you. That -20 to Hide in plain sight rule was from Song and Silence, not the core books, as far as I know. There's been enough discussions on that one on this board.

Unless you can retreat to where I can't see you or you Bluff me (which according to the PHB is a full-round action requiring interaction between the two people), you won't be able to Hide. Even if you DO manage to distract me long enough to hide it's at a -10 penalty (PHB, p. 69)
You could feint with Bluff skill as a standard action to deny my DEX AC, but unless you're hasted that'd still leave you unable to attack that round

WEll, if I'm 100ft away from my target he has -20 to spot me.

Spot is -1 per 10', so 100 feet away is only -10 to the skill check.

And the deal with ammo needing to be invisible would be a House Rule.

Invisibility spell description (PHB p. 218, second paragraph: "Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible...Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible"

So, by that logic, an arrow should become visible immediately upon leaving the bow (as soon as it's not in contact), and definitely after it gets 10' away. Either way, if you're firing from hundreds of feet away it should be visible for most of the flight time.

(With a good magical bow and the right feat, I can hit from half a mile away; if my target knows I'm firing at him, would he still be denied his DEX?)

Now, EB's reason is valid; it's a balance issue arising from not being able to close the distance. However, the fact that it'll only really affect the first attack isn't too bad. On the other hand, I'd worry about the Favored Enemy bonus; oh wait, did I just say Rangers were overpowered?

 

[Crothian]

"If people are observing you, even casually, you can't hide". If you just fired at me, I'm going to be observing you. That -20 to Hide in plain sight rule was from Song and Silence, not the core books, as far as I know. There's been enough discussions on that one on this board.

The core books don't discuss this. If you are fired upon from 100 or 500feet away or something does not mean you automatically know where the person that fired at you is.

Invisibility spell description (PHB p. 218, second paragraph: "Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible...Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible"

So, by that logic, an arrow should become visible immediately upon leaving the bow (as soon as it's not in contact), and definitely after it gets 10' away. Either way, if you're firing from hundreds of feet away it should be visible for most of the flight time.

Right, but that still doesn't make the attack not a sneak attack. If I am invisible and firing at you, you get no dex bonus. Now, I might be out of range of for a sneak attack, but you are still denied dex, even if you can see the arrow.

 

[Jeph]

The masses have spoken: this feat is a bad idea.

 

[las]

You can have gust add 10 ft. to the range, as a one time feat.