Fast Enough for Feather Fall?

[KarinsDad]

How do people rule Feather Fall when an arcane caster has to unexpectedly cast it on another creature?

Say you have a pit trap and a PC misses the Reflex save on the trap and falls in. Feather Fall is effectively an immediate action and immediate actions cannot be done while Flat Footed. So, can a fellow arcane PC be quick enough to save the falling PC?

I can think of several possible ways to resolve this:

1) Feather Fall is meant to save PCs, hence, it always works.

2) Have the arcane caster of a Feather Fall roll a Spot roll (possibly DC 15) and an Initiative roll and if he sees his fellow PC falling and he beats the "init of trap" (assuming an init mod of 0 for a trap), he can then save the other PC with Feather Fall. This might be similar to seeing if a PC can roll for init in a Surprise round.

3) Roll a Reflex save to see if the caster is fast enough (possibly DC 15).

4) Other?

 

[ThirdWizard]

This came up in our games recently, actually.

I believe we decided to change feather fall to Not An Action that could be performed at any time, removing it from the Immediate Action mechanic. Funny considering it looks like the Immediate Action was crated to mimic the feather fall mechanic. Ah well.

There was an alternate idea that we would allow Immediate Actions to be used outside of combat freely, but we didn't like making the distinction between "in combat" and "not in combat" in our games. I don't think it would be overpowered, though, and it would allow for possibly some intersting uses for those spells.

 

[NATOCM]

I'd say depends on the legnth of the drop, if its more than a round give them, if its less then they just don't have time.

 

[Plane Sailing]

1) Feather Fall is meant to save PCs, hence, it always works.

This is the option I'd always use. The purpose of the spell is to save someone who is falling, I'd never worry about how precisely someone managed to define the spell when they were writing up the description etc.

Otherwise you could end up not allowing the wizard to cast it on himself when a pit suddenly opens up underneath him!

Cheers

 

[Artoomis]

EDIT: Retracted opening sentences. Replaced with:

RAW does NOT actually prohibit Immediate Actions when Flat-Footed. You lose Dex to AC and cannot make any AoO. That's it.

edit: Rats... MarkB is correct that "Immediate Action" states they cannot be done when flat-footed - a condition that exists only in combat.

Surprise actually does state "Unaware Combatants... don’t get to act in the surprise round. " Technically, that's in addition to being flat-footed, so no Immediate Actions during a surprise round. Suprise rounds can ONLY happen at the start of combat, though, so for a pit trap outside of combat the spellcaster can cast "Feather Fall."

Flat-Footed (Condition Section)
A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

Flat-Footed (Initiative Section)
At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed.

Surprise
When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you’re surprised....
Unaware Combatants
Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC...

 

[Artoomis]

Removed - see above instead.

 

[MarkB]

I'd say depends on the legnth of the drop, if its more than a round give them, if its less then they just don't have time.

Feather Fall has Close range. Even if you use the falling speeds given for stalled flying creatures, a fall that lasts more than a round will take the subject out of the caster's range.

If a Reflex save is involved, one option would be to have the caster make the same save, and if he succeeds, he reacts in time to spellcast. Or you could just set a standard DC save (say, 15) for all such situations.

 

[MarkB]

Note that RAW does NOT actually prohibit Immediate Actions when Flat-Footed. You lose Dex to AC and cannot make any AoO. That's it.

From the SRD:

Immediate Actions

Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time — even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.

Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed. ​

However, you are correct in pointing out that the flat-footed condition technically does not exist outside combat.

 

[frankthedm]

Otherwise you could end up not allowing the wizard to cast it on himself when a pit suddenly opens up underneath him!

The caster has until he hits bottom to cast it on himself. The caster has only until his friend falls past the edge of the pit before line of sight and line of effect are broken.

I think needing an Init check a result of 20 or better is more than fair to beat someone going past the lip of a pit.

 

[KarinsDad]

"You can cast this spell with an instant utterance, quickly enough to save yourself if you unexpectedly fall."

This does not state what you can do for some other creature.

Note that RAW does NOT actually prohibit Immediate Actions when Flat-Footed. You lose Dex to AC and cannot make any AoO. That's it.

Not true. RAW does prohibit immediate actions while Flat-footed:

Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time — even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.

Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.