D&D 3E/3.5 Extra Spell (3.5)

[Alexander123]

I was looking through the Complete Arcane description of Extra Spell and it specifically says that this spell is used to gain access to a spell which the caster lacks and one which the caster would be unable to research.

This feat seems useful to gain access to a couple of Wu Jen spells like Body Outside of Body for my wizard and Giant Size for my druid.

I have heard some disagreement about whether this feat allows you to do such a thing. The description seems crystal clear to me.

What is your opinion about my ruling on this feat? If you disagree, why?

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

I think it's limited to spells on the caster's class spell list. If you subscribe to the "officialness" of the FAQ, then:

Can the warmage (Complete Arcane) benefit from the Extra Spell feat?

No. Extra Spell lets you add one spell to your list of spells known, but the spell must be taken from your class spell list. Since the warmage already knows all the spells on his class spell list, this feat has no effect.

So a caster is limited to using the feat to learn a spell on his class spell list, but that he cannot access/learn for some reason. But it doesn't let him take a spell from another class's list.

I supose that would allow a specialist wizard to learn a spell from a forbidden school. It certainly gives a sorc an extra spell on his known list. One might argue it lets a cleric gain access to a spell opposed to his deity's portfolio (??). And it wouldn't do anything for a druid, because a druid already "knows" all the spells on his list.

And this is how I'd rule imc. The big problem to my mind is, if you're selecting off another class list, how do you know what is the appropriate level for the desired spell?

 

[Nebten]

Disagree. It is supposed to give "on the fly" casters (like sorcerers) a larger bank of spells, since at the most they would get is 6, this allows them to get a 7th spell at a given level.

The last sentence in the benefit are for wizards that are in situations (such as an underdark maze) to learn an additional spell to their known list when the environment is not right (ie: having access to a scroll or another spell book and without time/matterials to scribe the spell).

 

[irdeggman]

Or for a wizard if the PC failed the Spellcraft check to learn a new spell. The bonus spells per level require no such check.

Basically this feat allows bypassing the requirement to make the check at all.

Not generally worth spending a feat for a wizard, IMO.

 

[Alexander123]

I think that FAQ ruling is a stupid ruling.

The reason being that it makes the feat a complete waste.

Why would anybody waste a feat to gain an extra spell off of their own list?

What value would this have to a wizard, a cleric or a druid?

Obviously, the spell would be the same level that it is on the other casters list.

*Edit*: It could have use for a sorceror but the feat description specifically says that a wizard has use for it too. (gaining access to a spell he or she lacks and would be unable to research. Spells off of another casters list fits under the description of spells a wizard lacks.)

 

[Alexander123]

I generally don't use errata and faqs because they are too hard to keep track of.

[MENTION=85158]Dandu[/MENTION] can you help on this issue with your expertise in gaming?

 

[Alexander123]

Anyways, Leadership can be used to gain a cohort in a spellcasting class whose spell you need so if power is the problem, it wouldn't be that broken.

 

[Dandu]

FAQ says no.

Feat's rather underpowered using that interpretation.

Thankfully the FAQ is not RAW.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

I think that FAQ ruling is a stupid ruling.

There are very rational reasons one might acept the FAQ ruling, none of which are objectively "stupid".

The reason being that it makes the feat a complete waste.

Why would anybody waste a feat to gain an extra spell off of their own list?

What value would this have to a wizard, a cleric or a druid?

Fair enough; I actually agree it's underpowered, especially for spell prep classes (though there are campaign specific cases for which it could be quite useful). However, I'd also point out there's no rule that a feat has to be useful to all classes. What use is Mounted Combat to a dungeon crawling fighter? Just because it's a "fighter feat" doesn't mean it has to be especially useful to all fighters. Likewise, Extra Spell doesn't have to be especially useful to all casters.

Obviously, the spell would be the same level that it is on the other casters list.

It's not always that obvious, though. First, many spells list 2 or more classes that can take the spell at different levels. Which level do you go with? Second, the fact that different classes take different spells at different levels suggests that there are reasons for balancing things that way.

Consider a XXX/Assassin8. Would you let him take Scrying using the Extra Spell feat? Scrying is a Brd 3, Clr 5, Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4. So which one is most appropriate for an assassin? Bard casts it at 3rd, and that's one less than this assassin's max castable spell level of 4th, so score! Or is it? Is any of those CLs for the assassin truly appropriate, considering Clairvoyance is a already a 4th level spell for him, and Scrying is way beyond it on the scale of Divination spells?

Honestly, I don't think there's any problem using your more liberal ruling, as long as the little obvious issues that pop up are dealt with consistently.

 

[Dandu]

However, I'd also point out there's no rule that a feat has to be useful to all classes.

There's also no rule that a feat has to be useful period.