Exotic Double Weapons

[Villano]

I was thinking of making a back up PC for a Rokugan game I'm in (when I'm bored, I make PCs...yeah, I know that's sad ).

I decided to make a ronin (fighter) with a two-bladed katana.

Firstly, does anyone know if there are stats on this (or what it's called)? I was figuring on just combining the katana stats with the two-bladed sword if there aren't.

Secondly, I assume that it, like the regular two-bladed sword is an exotic weapon.

Now, here's where I'm a little confused. To use an exotic double weapon (including the dwarven urgrosh and orc double axe), you need the exotic weapon feat as well as ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting?

Am I reading that right? It seems odd that you need an extra feat for this since you don't need it for a double-headed weapon like a quarterstaff.

Or does having the exotic weapon feat grant you the ability to use the weapon as if you had those other feats?

I'd check the errata on the WotC site, but m system isn't compatable.

 

[Epametheus]

You need an Exotic Weapon Proficiency to be able to use the double weapon without the non-proficiency penalty.

You need Two-Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity to be good at using them as actual double weapons. Note that you need the actual feats; the psuedo-feats that Rangers get for this stuff specifically don't work with double-weapons.

If you don't have TWF and Ambi, you'll basically just be choosing which head of the weapon you want to attack with that round (unless you want to take the -6/-10 penalty or whatever it exactly is).

 

[DarkJester]

There are currently no rules for two bladed katanas (that I am aware of). A double bladed sword is 1d8/1d8 19-20. A two bladed katana could be simulated using the heavy weapon rules, giving you 1d10/1d10 19-20. I think you would have to take EWP twice though. I'm not sure if you could do that.

 

[Corwin]

I, personally, wouldn't allow it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't have some unique double-bladed katana. Sure. If that's what you want. But I'd use the standard double sword rules. That's it. Make both ends masterwork (a requirement for a katana) and you're there.

Otherwise, you start to really get into questionable territory. Why take a standard double sword when you could have a double bastard sword? Right? That's the problem. And that's exactly what is happening here (because a katana is nothing more than a masterwork bastard sword).

 

[Villano]

I, personally, wouldn't allow it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't have some unique double-bladed katana. Sure. If that's what you want. But I'd use the standard double sword rules. That's it. Make both ends masterwork (a requirement for a katana) and you're there.

Otherwise, you start to really get into questionable territory. Why take a standard double sword when you could have a double bastard sword? Right? That's the problem. And that's exactly what is happening here (because a katana is nothing more than a masterwork bastard sword).

Well, the reason I though of using this weapon is because such a weapon did exist in Japan.

I can't think of what it was called, but I believe that in real life Nobunaga (sp?) used it (see the Onimusha video game).

I've also seen it in a few comic books and, probably, a samurai movie or two.

Since it existed in RL, I figured that would probably be some kind of stats on it for Rokugan (I could swear that I read something about its stats online...although that may have been something homebrewed on someone's site).

Now, as to why someone would take a regular two-bladed sword instead of this, I could ask the same think about the shikomi-zue.

The shikomi-zue is a bamboo staff with a concealed spearhead on one end. You can use it like a quarterstaff, doing 1d6 or 1d6/1d6.

However, when you pop the spear, it does 1d8.

Now, why would you choose a regular quarterstaff when you can pick a shikomi-zue and do 1d8/1d6?

In actuality, I don't have any great problem using the standard two-bladed sword if there isn't an official one for the katana.

I just posted my question to find out about the exotic weapon feat.

 

[Corwin]

Well, the reason I though of using this weapon is because such a weapon did exist in Japan.

No offence intended, but that is completely irrelevant. You missed the entire point of my post. I said you could do it. I had no problem with the idea. My problem was with the stats you wanted to give it. Just call it a masterwork double sword. Why does it have to have different stats? It's just a style thing.

Now, as to why someone would take a regular two-bladed sword instead of this, I could ask the same think about the shikomi-zue.

The shikomi-zue is a bamboo staff with a concealed spearhead on one end. You can use it like a quarterstaff, doing 1d6 or 1d6/1d6.

However, when you pop the spear, it does 1d8.

Now, why would you choose a regular quarterstaff when you can pick a shikomi-zue and do 1d8/1d6?

Now you are digging into your house rules to try and show why you should step off the dry dirt and onto this slippery slope.

First, you have to decide to include this weapon in your games. Do you have a write-up of how this weapon works in the D&D system? Because it seems it can transform from a quarterstaff into a spear.

Second, you seem to be allowing spears to be used as double weapons. Or is this particular spear special and different than a standard spear? I can't see how, other than it's retractable. So now you have to allow all polearms to be used as double weapons. I don't even have a problem with that. We've toyed with something like that ourselves. But to claim this particular weapon is balanced so your sword is too is just not going to float. Both are home brewed. Both require house rules to implement.

In actuality, I don't have any great problem using the standard two-bladed sword if there isn't an official one for the katana.

There isn't. And I recommend you just do that and call it a day.

I just posted my question to find out about the exotic weapon feat.

You mean if you'd need to take it twice to use an exotic exotic weapon? There is no such thing, so no. Which is why the double katana thing gets complicated.

 

[Villano]

Now you are digging into your house rules to try and show why you should step off the dry dirt and onto this slippery slope.

You mean if you'd need to take it twice to use an exotic exotic weapon? There is no such thing, so no. Which is why the double katana thing gets complicated.

Actually, I was digging into my copy of OA. The weapon exists there.

And what I was wondering about the exotic weapon feat was if taking the feat for a double-headed weapon gave you the ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting abilities when you used it, or if you needed all three feats to effectively use the weapon (which seems to be the case).

 

[Snowman]

The Exotic Weapon feat gives you proficiency in that one weapon, so without it you'd suffer the non-proficiency attack penalty. Particularly for using an exotic double weapon without proficiency I'd be inclined to make any fumbles real nasty

Ambidexterity does just what it suggests and makes your character equally proficient with either hand, thus negating the -2 penalty for an off-hand attack (AFAIR). It's good for lots of things not just fighting...your rogue just had his right hand chopped off but need to pick a lock? Phew, thank the gods for being ambidextrous!

Two-Weapon Fighting merely means your character has spent more time practicing fighting with two weapons, or a double weapon, and as we all know, practice makes better

Hope that clarified things a bit for you.

 

[Corwin]

Actually, I was digging into my copy of OA. The weapon exists there.

So this weapon is in OA huh? I haven't bothered to look. And since I don't have my books here, I'll take your word for it that this weapon is usable as you presented.

If so, I still don't see the relation between it and your double katana. It is a combination of two non-exotic weapons. This spear thing is an exotic weapon because it is an "improved" quarterstaff with a retractable blade. Not simply because it is a double weapon. After all, quarterstaves are not exotic. It's basically an exotic quarterstaff.

Your sword idea, however, is a exotic double weapon comprised of two exotic weapons.

Totally different.

And what I was wondering about the exotic weapon feat was if taking the feat for a double-headed weapon gave you the ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting abilities when you used it, or if you needed all three feats to effectively use the weapon (which seems to be the case).

Ah. I see. Yes, you would need ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting to weild a double weapon at the minimum penalty (-2/-2). All normal restrictions apply, it's just that double weapons have the advantage of the off-hand end being considered a light weapon dispite its "size" normally. That and one weapon focus feat (and its ilk) applies to the whole thing. Oh, and you can always swing it as a two-handed weapon for the extra strength bonus (x1.5) when you get only a single attack. Stuff like that.

 

[Villano]

If so, I still don't see the relation between it and your double katana. It is a combination of two non-exotic weapons. This spear thing is an exotic weapon because it is an "improved" quarterstaff with a retractable blade. Not simply because it is a double weapon. After all, quarterstaves are not exotic. It's basically an exotic quarterstaff.

Your sword idea, however, is a exotic double weapon comprised of two exotic weapons.

Totally different.

Well, technically, the bastard sword or katana is really a martial weapon. You just need the exotic weapon feat for one-handed use.

But my point about comparing the shikomi-zue to the quarterstaff was in response to your comparing the two-bladed sword to the two-bladed katana (i.e., why take one weapon when you can take something which deals more damage?).

I could have just as easily asked why someone would choose a dwarven urgrosh (1d8/1d6) instead of an orc double axe (1d8/1d8)? Or heavy flail (1d10) instead of a greatsword (2d6)? Or even the bastard sword as a marial, 2-handed weapon (1d10) instead of the Greatsword?

Or, if you have a +4 Dex, why you'd take Hide armor (+3 ac) instead of a chainshirt (+4 ac)?

Flavor, money, or just the player's personality all come into play when crafting a PC.

I'm not meaning to pick a fight or quibble over minor points, but you see what my original point was (just because it can do more damage doesn't mean everyone will want one...Lord knows there have been people who've decided to go with Weapon Focus: Dagger! ).

And besides, that double bastard sword would probably be damned expensive.

I do understand concerns that a 1d10/1d10 weapon may be too powerful. But making it so expensive that you can't pick it up for several levels could help balance it out.

Although it's all pretty moot, actually, since being double-headed, it's no longer really a "katana" (just as a double-bladed sword really isn't a "sword", anymore).

I still wish I knew what that Japanese weapon was called, though.